Sugar not so nice for your child’s brain development
news.uga.edu
news.uga.edu
The paper is from March/2021, and there was discussion on HN then: 91pts, 27 comments [1]
[0]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-021-01309-7 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26667037
By way of perspective, a hamster can drink the equivalent of 21 bottles of wine in a single day with impunity.
https://twitter.com/LawtonTri/status/1461456068857499652
A rodent's sugar metabolism might just be different to a human's.
I want recommendations of "don't eat sugar" to dig into the details, because sugar is everywhere. My mother-in-law "doesn't eat sugar" but constantly snacks on figs/dates, pours honey over everything, and drinks fruit smoothies daily. In my opinion, she has a very high sugar diet despite not adding any table sugar or corn syrup to anything. Many recommendations say to limit "added sugar" without explaining why naturally occurring sugar is okay.
What's a nice fruit that's not bred to be way too sugary?
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=344221859759175 (Apologies for the FB Video link, the exact excerpt isn't on Youtube).
tl;dr:
- Glucose good in reasonable intake
- Same for lactose (unless you're intolerant)
- Sucrose (i.e. table sugar) is 50% Glucose and Fructose
- Frutose is bad.
Longer version: Fructose is naturally quite rare, and presumably we've adapted to that; our bodies can only process small quantities effectively. It's also the sweetest and (implied?) most addictive of the sugars. These days we can manufacture it though, so it turns up in just about every sweet processed food it can.
EDIT: After watching the lecture linked by sul_tasto below (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29849184) it seems it's just a question of fructose quantity and prevalence rather than the body processing it differently from other sugars.
I don't understand the argument against fructose. It seems to mainly "the liver has to work to digest it", but isn't that true of a lot of other nutrients as well? I mean, that's the main function of the liver, so the fact that fructose engages the liver should not by default imply that it's bad.
Except it affects insulin levels. Rather than the brain.
You could maybe make an argument that the fruits we consume now are a result of hundreds of years of selective breeding and contain much more of it than indigenous plants.
This vast majority of not-fructose plays a great role in the overall digestion process.
Fructose is refined product. These tribespeople do not eat refined fructose, they eat fruit which is much more than just fructose.
The key is fiber. When you eat fruit, you consume fructose with fiber. Fiber hinders absorption of fructose. Many processed foods have a lot of fructose and no fiber, because fiber doesn't help the shelf life.
EDIT: here's a more expanded explanation from the same endocrinologist in another video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5szfPYKY4&t=4924s
We are indeed well adapted to consuming fruit. Even though modern fruit is bred to be much more sugary than its natural predecessors (ever tried eating a wild apple from a tree on a hike? Insanely sour), there does not seem to be any kind of health problem associated with consumption of raw fruit. We have a lot of metabolically sick people around the world - over a billion probably - but few of them, if any, have gotten to that point by eating too much fruit.
Fructose is not fruit, though. Even very sweet fruit like mango has only 16 per cent of fructose per weight. Fructose itself is 100 per cent, it is refined, concentrated stuff, from which all fiber has been removed.
Fiber that naturally occurs in fruit and veg slows down processing of fruit and veg in the digestive system - it takes fairly long (hours) to extract all the fructose from an eaten piece of fruit. As a result, the liver isn't overworked - it receives manageable quantity of fructose over a long period.
Now compare a situation when you drink a litre of sweetened beverage. That is a lot of fructose - you just drank an equivalent of seven? eight? apples in half an hour or so. And all that sugar comes in liquid form, so it enters your blood very fast, producing a huge spike. The liver is overwhelmed. It can cope somehow, but do this ten thousand times and some negative outcomes are bound to follow.
There is a scientist (Robert H. Lustig, professor of endocrinology at UCSF) who, more than a decade ago, published a long video called "Sugar: The Bitter Truth". It is stuffed with various biochemical observations and longish, but I found the information useful.
When the messaging is centered around "carbs are bad" or "fructose is bad" it will lead people to believe that fruits are bad for you. I've seen several health channels on youtube recommend not eating more than the equivalent of one apple per day in terms of fruits.
While people can and do consume excessive amounts of fat/oil, we are somewhat protected by the fact that fat has a very strong satiating effect, which makes it a little harder to completely pig out. Fructose has no satiating effect at all.
Generally, yes, anything in excess has dire consequences, but in some things those consequences manifest sooner than in others. Sweetened beverages as consumed today are very much a definition of excess: big packaging, a lot of sugar within, and their mass consumption is societally normalized.
That processing hinges on a healthy insulin response to keep blood sugar levels in check. Which for a large part of the population is probably not the case.
Again with a suitable amount of fibres to go with that glucose intake, the load can be levelled somewhat though.
Robert Lustig explains the issue here: https://robertlustig.com/fructose2/ and this [ https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/physrev.0001... ] provides a readable account of the problem if fructose consumption rises above a certain level.
> Sucrose (i.e. table sugar) is 50% Glucose and Fructose
> Frutose is bad.
So would substituting sugars with Dextrose powder (i.e. 100% Glucose) make sense? Dexterose powder is widely available and isn't expensive.
Already covered by inglor_cz, but for posterity, the first EDIT is incorrect - in addition to quantity problems, Fructose and Glucose are processed very differently in the liver.
Fructose impact on the liver is much more like Alcohol than Glucose.
I wonder if there is more to this study than simply sugar consumption; perhaps its in combination with other dietary factors, or even HFCS instead of plain sugar, or a different type of microbiome from back then compared to more recent times (different diet in general compared to 5o years ago).
I also wonder if any developmental effect measured when a child is still young is eventually overcome over time.
That’s not memory, that’s hard disk (or I guess SSD for you youngins’). You definitely need good memory to be a good programmer because large problems require a larger working set to efficiently reference whilst problem solving.
While many problems in computer science that can theoretically be solved with a small amount of memory and a large amount of slower disk, many of them cannot be solved in what we’d consider a reasonable amount of time.
Sugar, sugar, who you talkin' to? Dirty water who be lovin' you? Stroke, no joke, musta hit that salt Don't look at me, 'cause it ain't my fault
I guess it's a wonder we accomplished anything at all.
The "pple aren't rats" line is a knee-jerk response that adds nothing of value, save for revealing the ignorance of the person who utters it.
I feel like a lot of people don’t understand how continuous certain parts of biology are (and aren’t).
So I think it's pretty important to note "this is just in rats so far". It doesn't mean 0 predictive power. But it's far from solid that the effect transfers to your average US citizen, for example. IMO, these types of animal studies are useful guides for further (hopefully human) research, but shouldn't influence your day to day behavior, or the choices you make for your child. There's ample reason to avoid empty calories from sugar for pure nutritional reasons anyway, based on human studies.
> It doesn't mean 0 predictive power.
BTW, I also think that most of the time you shouldn't change your daily behavior based on one single human study.
You could make your career from studying just tiny tiny parts of 2 or 3 but instead we got a study that is trying to solve for the world.
Rats, actually. Here's[1] the study.
Rodent models are widely used for studies. Do you have particular concerns about them being used in this study to gather implications on human diet and health?
Imagine if they used cats instead, which are almost wholly carnivorous. Or cattle, which live mostly on the foliage of plants. How applicable to humans could the results be?
Just because you haven't had experience in this field of study so it sounds weird doesn't mean it's somehow useless or doesn't work.
I don't have any horse in this race, personally. I don't have kids and don't have plans to pop any out of me, so I don't feel the need to investigate further.
But I still want to point out no one in this thread so far has any data or experience interpreting it to claim "my kid is not a rat, therefore the study means very little."
I'm happy to be proven that rats aren't a good indicator for what the article claims though.
There's a lot of bogus academic papers out there, especially within the past 10 years.
But I'm also not going to interpret it with my "gut" feeling of rat != kid on this because it's way out of the scope of what I understand. There's better people outside of hacker news comments that can explain this stuff better.
But as someone who consumes alot of sugar and actively tries to prevent my child from consuming sugar. I appreciate these studies that give us insight into the affects of sugar on children. Gives me more motivation to prevent my child from getting too much sugar.