Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

309 pointsburnoutwhatnow209 comments

I've been feeling off in several ways for a long time now, months if not more, and finally got around to seeing some healthcare professionals. "Showing symptoms of severe occupational burnout" is what I'm being told, and it rings true.

I know there are probably plenty of people on HN who have gone through the same. Reflecting back on your experiences, what are the sensible things to do next? Aside from continuing to listen to the aforementioned healthcare professionals, that is.

Some questions I'm wondering about, specifically:

- Should I tell my boss and/or team? Should I tell them right away, or wait until I know what other steps I want to take? What should I expect their reactions to be?

- Should I take time off? How much? Or should I try to work reduced hours? I'm hesitant because I don't have many hobbies (if any) and in the middle of the pandemic there isn't much to do anyway. I don't think running out of things to do would be any better for my health than continuing as-is. I've been there before and I don't handle boredom well.

- If I continue working, is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Think of senior engineer in a typical DevOps-y SaaS startup.

- Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about? I feel like this isn't exactly rare.

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The bad news is it’s going to take a long time to heal. The good news is you can come back happier than you can imagine.

In an ideal scenario you would quit working entirely to focus on your health, but I’m guessing this is not an option.

You need to focus on the body first. The most important is sleep, but that is also difficult to address directly, so it’s best to focus on diet and exercise. You’ll likely have to design your entire day and week around these two things.

Try the Whole 30 program first. It’s a way of eating that eliminates inflammation causing foods. DONT TRY TO LOSE WEIGHT! Weight loss is important for overall health but you’ll usually sleep worse during a weight loss phase. That said you’ll probably lose weight naturally anyway.

Give up the alcohol for 30 days and consider weening off caffeine at some point since both of these will mess up your sleep.

For exercise, you just have to find something enjoyable enough to do at least 3x per week. It really doesn’t matter what it is as long as it makes you a bit sore. Consistency is key - don’t overdo it by jumping into something like CrossFit.

Lastly, WHY are you burning yourself out? Are you afraid of failing? Afraid of being broke? Afraid of being perceived as a loser? The WHY is a spiritual problem and may be addressed through meditation (slow), psychotherapy (slower), or psychedelics (fast but more risk). Until you resolve the WHY of your burnout you’ll likely remain stuck in this cycle.

Can't comment one way or the other on Whole 30, but my wife and I have drastically reduced our sugar consumption and it's made us feel significantly better. Eliminating it entirely is a huge pain, but choosing the lower/no sugar options whenever they're available has helped us cut out probably ~90% of our sugar consumption, and even just that has had a noticeable effect on our health.

Did you only eliminate sweets, chocolate, etc. or also bread, pasta, and all other things that break into glucose.

I have been on a similar trend lately. Trying to first focus on low gluten/no gluten and nothing with processed sugar in it. Often hard to eliminate it all but even a dramatic cut back in processed foods has made a difference on my sleep.

Cutting out processed foods and making your own food everyday makes a huge difference!

body treats everything carbs (except for dietary fiber and sugar alcohols) as glucose eventually. getting under 50g net carbs a day is fairly easy. staying under 20g net is harder but not impossible these days.

Yeah... but that "eventually" is metabolically relevant. Anecdata, but 250g / day of complex carb felt very different to 125g simple carb + 125g complex carb / day. As an athlete, and at one point a keto based athlete, I'm confident that carbs per se were not the enemy.

We tried keto for a month or so but it was a pain to keep up with (and getting more expensive because of meat price inflation).

Just eliminating sources of corn syrup and added sugar is a great first step, IMO. We cut out soda, sweets, and other added-sugar crap (but kept bread, milk, pasta, fruit, honey, etc) and that alone was a big improvement.

Personally, just eliminating obviously-sweet things has been enough to make me not even want them in quantities I used to like. I still like things of course, but more than a little candy or soda is sorta sickening after you get away from it for a while. It becomes self-reinforcing.

Eliminating sweets is likely more important. Complex carbs in pasta / bread or even simple sugars in fruits are absorbed more slowly which supposedly is much better for you. I think the jury is still out on how good or bad carbs are for you. My instinct tells me they are probably completely fine if they don't make you feel bad personally.

This is a very good list. I'll add my to 2 cents to this.

1. Don't do any addiction. Alcohol, Psychedelics nothing. That's another spiral you won't be able to climb out from.

2. Taking some time off is the easiest way to figure out your l life. You will soon be able to realise your priorities in life. I'd say 2 months is good enough a time. But the most important thing is to not attempt doing any work stuff during the time out period.

"Don'd do any addiction" is unfortunately a lot easier said than done.

Psychedelics are generally not addictive [0], and if used correctly can help very much with burn out. [1][2]

> They are generally considered physiologically safe and do not lead to dependence or addiction. [0]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4813425/

[1] https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/how-to-cure-burnout

[2] https://www.friedtheburnoutpodcast.com/post/dr-randi-raymond

Edit: add references [1] and [2]

It depends. Sure, they are generally not forming chemical dependence. Psychological addiction can still be an issue for people in this situation.

Did you even read the phrase I quoted? It specifically says "do not lead to _dependence_ or _addiction_".

Yes I read it. Do you understand the difference between chemical and psychological addiction?

"People abusing mushrooms can become dependent by believing that they need the drug to maintain a sense of enlightenment or happiness."

https://www.addictioncenter.com/drugs/hallucinogens/psilocyb...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29098666/

I do and I never claimed either _never_ happens. That's what the "generally" [0] bit in the text means.

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generally

"They are generally considered physiologically safe and do not lead to dependence or addiction."

The way this is written means:

They are generally considered physiologically safe.

They do not lead to dependence or addiction.

Also, you did not quote 'generally' in your response (the one with underscores).

Direct quote from my original response: "Psychedelics are generally not addictive".

> They do not lead to dependence or addiction.

Thanks for making my point.

Edit: Also thanks for the downvote. Being that you then proceeded to _not_ counter me with any real arguments, it also helps to make my point.

Edit 2: (this will be a bit longer)

I think I see what you mean, and I apologise if my writing and understanding was not entirely precise.

You're pointing out that the NCBI link I provided (an actual scientific study) specifically states that they _do not_ cause addiction or dependence, whereas the one you linked from Addiction Center (who seems to sell addiction treatments) with no links to studies says that they _might_ happen.

Despite my now corrected lack of precision, I'm still missing your point.

Please see my prior linked PubMed article about psychological addiction.

My point is that psychological addiction is a concern for burnt out people looking for a solution, or people who quit their job and have time to fill. Psychological addiction is different than chemical addiction.

I understand. The PubMed link says nothing about psychedelics though, which is the subject of this thread. It's merely stating the difference between substance and non-substance abuse.

You can form a psychological dependence to a substance that does not produce a physical dependence.

It seems there's an irreconcilable difference in the definitions of addiction that we are using. I think those reading have enough info to view the arguments and make up their minds.

> You can form a psychological dependence to a substance that does not produce a physical dependence.

Yes, I understand that.

Do you have any actual evidence that this happens with psychedelics though?

My personal experiences have shown me a very different picture. After a trip I don't want to touch the thing with a long pole for days or weeks, and that's the same I've seen with other people, including some heavy party-goers who are definitely addicted chemically and/or psychologically to many other substances and habits.

Sure, those are anecdotes, but so far I haven't seen evidence to the contrary of them. You haven't provided me with any either, except that Addiction Center article with no science backing. They sell addiction treatment, so it's in their business interest that more addiction exists or is purported to exist. Note that I'm not assuming malice on their side. It's probably more likely that given the lack of evidence either way, they decided to lean towards the more conservative side, which also aligns with their business.

Self medicating is one of the best ways to become addicted. I think drugs can be useful, but it's also an easy way to escape from your issues, or can make them worse. It depends a lot on the individual and their state of mind.

I agree, which is why I wrote "if used correctly".

This can mean self-medicating if you know what you're doing, but otherwise these days there are professionals qualified to help.

I doubt psychedelics will be used to escape from your issues, but yes - they can make them worse if you're not careful.

It's really hard to self medicate when you're head is in the wrong place. It's much easier to abuse in moments of weakness. Like drinking when depressed, etc., which can just become a downward spiral. I agree with the original commentator, who says to avoid drugs as a way to deal, as tempting as they may be - and I've been there.

Addiction is more of a behavior than a substance (although they are definitely related). Exercise, sex, gambling, work... all can become something you're problematically dependent on. Your therapist should know much more.

Also, if you do end up quitting your job or otherwise finding yourself with a lot of free time, be aware that certain video games or media can count as addictions. While video games and such can absolutely be good for you and your recovery, it's surprisingly easy to find yourself suddenly logging 8+ hours per day in World of Warcraft or something, and that's not good for you for a number of reasons.

I know why I'm burning out, but I don't know what to do with the realisation. The fear of being fired, then broke, and then not being able to survive is real-ish. Advice?

Do you feel like the realization/fear come from a rational place, or primarily driven by anxiety?

Everyone’s journey is different, but depending on where that fear is coming from, I could imagine drastically different next steps.

Personally, therapy has helped me immensely. A lot of my early anxiety about these things stemmed from severe imposter syndrome, and through the years I’ve gained enough confidence in myself to know that my skills are in demand, and survival is likely in the current market.

But if that fear is due to other things - the health of your employer’s business, etc. then a very different course of action might be required.

How people find a good therapist these days? I contacted about 10 already and all are fully booked.

Our minds are conditioned to operate from a place of fear. The fear feeling is real. The fears may even be founded.

The difference is whether you’re existing in the grip of that fear or thriving from a place of love.

You could try reading something like “The Mastery of Love” by Don Miguel Ruiz to get a taste, but the healing has to come through the body and nervous system. You can’t will your way through this.

Edit: Important note: The right antidepressant can help!

> Try the Whole 30 program first. It’s a way of eating that eliminates inflammation causing foods. DONT TRY TO LOSE WEIGHT! Weight loss is important for overall health but you’ll usually sleep worse during a weight loss phase. That said you’ll probably lose weight naturally anyway

Can't stress this enough. I've spent the last decade trying to lose weight and failing, always yo-yoing up a little bit higher and losing confidence each time. Consistent diet changes are really freaking hard especially when you're battling other health issue. Aerobic exercise burns a hilariously tiny amount of calories for the effort and eventually it can eat away at motivation.

Setting up a home gym to lift weights and trying to eat healthier rather less has done wonders for my health. ExRx has a lot of information [1] but the gist of it is that a pound of fat burns under 5 calories a day while a pound of lean muscle burns 30 calories a day without exercise and as much as 50 calories a day for up to several days after anaerobic exercise (weight lifting). The maximum grow rate is from half a pound to a pound (for those that won the genetic lottery) of lean muscle a week so in 10 weeks its possible to add 150-300 calories to your basal metabolic rate that requires minimal maintenance compared to on-going dieting. Weight lifting doesn't require that much effort [2] or maintenance, just proper form and equipment, so it's a lot easier to permanently incorporate in a schedule a few times a week than a life long dieting change.

[1] https://exrx.net/FatLoss

[2] https://exrx.net/WeightTraining/Research

> Setting up a home gym to lift weights and trying to eat healthier...

Does a treadmill work instead of weight lifting? Curious to know based on your experience.

No, it needs to be anaerobic exercise.

I'd like to add to the list of things to try: Go to an eye doctor if you haven't been in a while, even if you've always had perfect vision in the past. We tech workers spend a lot of time staring at screens, and minor eye discomfort can compound into a major source of stress without you necessarily being aware of it.

Interesting. Any links?

No, just personal anecdotal experience!

> For exercise, you just have to find something enjoyable enough to do

I can't emphasise this enough, staying interested in doing gym exercise for the sake of fitness alone is not sustainable for most people - and boring even if you can. Exercise is an opportunity to find something physical you enjoy spending your time doing, and this can be as much a mental relief as a physical one. This is similar to how most of us enjoy learning about a technology far more while we have something directly in front of us to apply it to, getting fit and staying fit is really fun when you can apply it.

Remember this does not only mean team sports, there is more to the world than what school PE exposed us to, there will definitely be something out there that interests you. It can also be great for your mental health in general, especially if it involves getting out into nature.

agree completely. never into sports and absoutely hate gyms.

but i started doing manual labor in a creative field, and getting around town using a bike and i'm much better for it.

curious: would mind describing exactly what kind of manual labor in a creative field?

art metal fabricator - metal manufacturing for sculptors and other artists that need specialist help producing work or tooling.

Piling on here to add gym's dont have the monopoly on exercise!

Consider any of the following they all count:

* Hiking in the woods or parks

* Dancing lessons

* Running, Walking, inline skating, long boarding, bicycling, and really anything remotely similar

* martial arts in a dojo / club

* Strength training doing calisthenics at one of those outdoor gym things.

Keep in mind traditional strength training is great[1] for a number of reasons, but it's not the only way to get exercise.

[1]: dare i say superior due to it's muscle preserving and bone density effects? but getting overly picky about optimality can be a source of burnout in of itself.

My little anecdote:

I've personally found Rock Climbing to be extremely rewarding in highly varied ways - it is a very mental activity, problem solving, but in a physical and personal way that is not in conflict with relief from a cognitive job. It's physically one of the most balanced activities for the body. It can take you to truly awesome places and make you appreciate nature more. It has many sub styles, some with their own interesting mental challenges and techniques. You get a sense of adventure like no other... it's also just inherently damn fun to do, it's not unreasonable to say we have somewhat evolved for climbing - so it makes sense that we find it fun.

It's also a lot more accessible than it used to be. The easiest way to start would be indoor bouldering gyms (these have a fantastic social element too), and then indoor sports climbing gyms... just remember there is much more to be had from it than plastic, the outdoors awaits.

Is it not dangerous outside? Anecdotal but I'm a huge hiker and almost slipped trying to climb black tusk ( near Whistler). Would you suggest a gym? They seem pretty pricey in contrast to more conventional gyms.

It's an inherently dangerous activity... but not as much as most people think, for instance I consider skiing or even mountain-biking more dangerous, because you have no safety at all. With climbing safety is part of the game, I fall on a regular basis (If i'm doing sports climbing I will actually intentionally climb to the point of failure and fall, because it's extremely safe to, and part of mental acclimatisation). We use ropes for a reason (except when we don't, but that's another topic). When you're outside the danger does depend a lot on style, you can stick to sports climbing (bolts set in the wall just like indoors), which is the safest. Trad climbing admittedly takes a long time to get to the point when you know it's safe to fall on gear, and even then it's a probability you are constantly calculating in your head - and part of trad is also knowing when you cannot fall - these are actually part of the challenge that can be enjoyable, although I realise that's hard to understand for many people. This is a topic that has been discussed to death over the years and I could go on, but I'll just leave it here: there are many styles, you can pick the safest, it's a personal choice.

I can't compare the pricing on climbing gyms to regular ones, because I can't remember the last time I went to a "regular" one, I don't think they are unreasonable but that may depend on the country. Here in the UK the number have grown a lot over the last couple decades so that there is healthy competition between them. Another aspect is that once the climbing gym is a supplement and you can go outdoors, it doesn't feel so pricey.

> Remember this does not only mean team sports, there is more to the world than what school PE exposed us to, there will definitely be something out there that interests you.

My biggest bugbear about school PE is the focus on team sports. I know some schools want to build their sports teams, but if there is one goal of PE class it should be ensuring every child finds at least 1 form of exercise they really enjoy.

I’d encourage you to persist in finding something you can get into and stick with. I’ve really got into obstacle course racing events like Tough Mudder and started with the shortest distance - everyone there is helping everyone else through it. Find what works for you.

> psychedelics (fast but more risk)

Do you have any pointers or experience to expand on that point? How to go about it specifically so that it helps move towards a solution? What about combining it with psychotherapy?

> Should I tell my boss and/or team?

No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't.

> Should I take time off? How much?

Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind.

> Is there something in my working environment I should try to change?

Probably reduce the volume of work you are doing or do something that you care about more.

> Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about?

Yes, it's a constant treadmill of work, and if you aren't ready to never finish a project (all projects I've seen are in constant flux with constant changes) then get out now and find a career where you actually produce a finished product then move on to the next (like furniture building). The idea that software is a thing that is "complete" was a leftover from the 90's and the constant treadmill makes some people (myself included) go nuts.

> > Should I tell my boss and/or team? > No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't.

I disagree that this is universally true. I have had at least 2 bosses that I know would help deal with burnout because 1 of them helped me and the other I have seen help others in this same situation. A good boss cares about their employee's health and wants to keep good workers. I agree that your advice is the safe route, but I think if you know for a fact you have one of the good bosses of the world then that approach can lead to better results.

Ditto. Bosses vary. Don't take blanket advice like "the boss is evil".

The other part of the advice, namely that your colleagues will backstab you, is even more worrisome. I'd go so far as to say that if you don't have at least some colleagues you can safely tell something like this, then you are in the wrong environment.

> > Should I take time off? How much?

> Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind.

I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.

There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary (maybe you're not in the US?). Sure exceptions exist and it can be perfectly rational to spend almost everything now for some higher utility, especially if you plan to save later, but having the requisite income/spending ratio to save up a year's expenses is not hard for software engineers (in the US).

I second the suggestion of several months to a year of time off, but admittedly it's scary to consider getting a job afterwards, since you'll not have the existing job as leverage and some places will question the gap. Depending on the company it may be possible to "boomerang" back in if your leave is under one year without having to do the interview grind again with them.

Unfortunately burnout can take over a year to recover from (if ever 100%), so there's also a reasonable question of whether that extended break is going to be long enough. Maybe OP just needs a month or two, but maybe they'll need a couple years. It's hard to say whether it's better to take a minor break now and then come back until they near the breaking point again, or just power through until they literally can't, saving as much as they can so when they can't they'll have as long as they might need to rest -- which may be longer than if they just stopped now due to the accumulated damage.

I've thought about taking several months between jobs. Having to deal with the health insurance aspect has always felt overly daunting however. Both from the financial aspect and even just the "how do I shop for this thing" perspective.

Health insurance isn't that bad. COBRA legislation allows you to keep your current company plan for 18 months, plus an 18 month extension if needed, with the catch that you start paying for it yourself. You'll get a letter about it with instructions. It can be rather expensive though, I recall mine being somewhere around $600/mo, so I opted to take a risk and go without for quite awhile. (Remembering the financial burden my mom got herself in when she was still alive -- she was unexpectedly laid off, and between jobs stopped having coverage, it was then that she fell and broke her arm.) Later I got a "cheapo" plan that's $280/mo this year, that's basically my hedge against similar really costly unexpected events, though having one would still be annoyingly expensive anyway since it has a high deductible. It's not hard to shop for them, basically search "[your state] health insurance" and look for the relevant portal that lets you compare and pick a plan. Here's Washington's: https://www.wahealthplanfinder.org/

> If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits

This is probably the most detached-from-reality thing I have ever read on HN.

That's a pretty impressive feat. I'm tempted to link to things I think are more detached, but I'd prefer if you tried to correct me instead of insult me so that if I am detached I can become re-attached.

As I led with, there are a lot of us, so that you don't personally know anyone (now you know at least one impersonally) says more about your social circle than anything. Hence my curiosity on whether you're in the US, outside of which I admit to not having much data apart from there often being low salaries and high taxes. I also realize exceptions exist, one might have a non-working partner and/or multiple kids and/or other circumstances that make it hard but to spend almost one's entire paycheck. I think these are exceptions though and they don't characterize most (happy to concede down to many if you can convince me) US-based software engineers/software managers/PMs/devops/... (what I meant by 'tech'; you might have me if we investigate other roles e.g. technical writers). There is also the situation where they spend but could save if they organized their finances. I want to refer to the candles budget meme, since it points to an underlying truth for a lot of people...

Simply put, outside of the coasts, Software Engineers don't make nearly as much as you seem to think they do.

"After a year in software engineering, you should have at least a year's living expenses saved up"? What world are you living in?

Been in software nearly 10 years now. There is no way in any universe that after year 1 I would have had living expenses for a _whole year_ saved up. At a base salary of $30k starting (10 years ago, mind you), with rent at $1.5k/mo, that doesn't leave too much after taxes for savings after existing expenses, let alone being able to save up an entire year's worth of those living expenses on that salary. At the time I started, in my area, $30K/yr was the average, btw.

So yes, your comment was _incredibly_ detached from reality.

Thanks, that at least gives a basis for finding agreeable qualifiers to make a weaker claim. One of them is: if your first year was any time in the last n years... Is there an agreeable n? Salaries have gone up outside of the coasts. A quick search found https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2019/05/21/softw... showing data from 2018 (split between "of systems software" and "of applications software"), with the lowest average for applications wage being Wyoming at $72k and systems wage being Pennsylvania at $60k. The latter is interesting since Pennsylvania ranks 25 for "applications" at $96k. (Amusingly I also found https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-So... which puts Wyoming as the highest at $107k and Texas near the bottom at $80k; I'm pretty skeptical of that data though beyond it only supposedly coming from ADP.)

Anecdotally, in Utah there are startups as of two years ago offering $200k/yr, but I've got friends there working at unsexy places like the water company or on library software. I think the lowest-earning friend is somewhere around $80k/yr and refuses to consider looking around. 10 years ago out here in the Seattle region, in 2012 I worked at a mostly-two-man startup with a mix of part-time/full-time for $20/hr. If that was full time it'd have been $41k/yr, but it wasn't, so I didn't have a year saved up when we dissolved. Nevertheless I did have enough saved up that with the additional support of some student loans I could mostly wrap up my schooling in 2013 without working even during the off periods. In 2014 I started my first non-startup job and would have been happy with $80k but instead I got $110k, which less than two years later would be a typical starting salary for the one lower "Associate" tier roles used for entry-level incomers with truly no prior experience beyond maybe an internship.

Having previously made $15/hr ($31k/yr if full time, which again it wasn't) during 2010/2011 I do at least understand how hard it can be to save up at that level, so I'm not going to attempt arguing that at $30k/yr and $1500/mo in rent it's somehow straightforward. At that time I split an apartment but circumstances led to me paying the whole thing for a while at around $800/mo, then I moved to a rental house with 3 other people but only paid $550/mo. Rents have only gone up and currently I pay $1750/mo; I can't imagine tolerating $1500/mo at $30k. What was wrong with your area to have such high rents and such low salaries?

Given all that, I'm committed at least to being more careful with my qualifications in the future and I'll try to avoid making such broad claims. Would you accept a weaker claim that "After a year in software engineering in one of the hot areas like coastal cities or Austin, ..."? I don't really want to weaken it that far, since I think salaries have risen enough elsewhere in the last, say, 6 years, that I'd rather make the weaker claim "After a year in software engineering if you've started in the last 6 years...". Is there any n of years you'd agree with, or is it still primarily location-based to you? I also may need to make a qualifier to indicate some sort of funded or longer-established company and not an unfunded garage-style lean startup. I did leave a qualification in my original statement but that hasn't been argued with and I'll keep it (i.e. the possibility of a suspiciously low salary that may need to be addressed first; my friend making around $80k despite working at the same place for many years is near this category, since area salaries around them have gone up quite a bit, however in their case it's not enough on its own to preclude huge savings given the area's living expenses).

> "After a year in software engineering in one of the hot areas like coastal cities or Austin, ..."

Honestly, that would make a lot more sense.

If you even qualified it and said "After a year at today's salaries, as a single adult with no dependents" it would make so much more sense.

> In 2014 I started my first non-startup job and would have been happy with $80k but instead I got $110k

I'm 10 years into the tech field (3 years software automation engineer, 7 years dev) and still haven't even touched your _starting_ salary of 110k. Currently a Lead Software Engineer making just under 100.

Living expenses have gone up significantly with children, though, and with the housing market being what it is.

> I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.

Consider that being burned out you don't have any upcoming funds anyway. If you force yourself to earn something, you just burn deeper, get fired or can't find work.

So it's lose-lose, and the best advice is just let it go and focus on your mental health.

Because without it there won't be any money anyway.

Lean on your friends, downsize, shed everything inessential, do what it takes. But don't force yourself to continue as is, it'll only make it worse in the end.

Well, I'm lucky enough to live in Western Europe, where burnout is considered an sickness you should take enough time for to heal. That means that my (obligatory) health insurance (that is paid for mostly by my fellow countrymen) provides me with an income.

> No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't.

At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization.

That said, "the end of the day" is not the beginning. Yes, some people will behave the way you describe. It can be hard to be sure you can trust another human being who you know will be forced to fire you if you can't do the work they hired you to do, at least on a long enough time frame. But not everyone will "stab you in the back", I can promise that.

> At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization.

How dystopian.

When a colleague of mine burned out they talked to their boss and the boss assured them to take as much time as they needed. Then the boss made sure that everybody took as much load off of them as possible so they don't have to worry about projects and other things work related.

In the end my colleague was home for about 12 months, then returned to work, and is still working there, just not as many hours. No problems anywhere, everybody is happy. The boss is happy because they have an experienced employee back and the employees that their boss cares about them.

How utopian.

I manage a team with hundreds of engineers on it. If I have someone who is taking a year off (with pay I presume), I have to give their work to people. Once enough people do that, I have exhausted the capacity of the team and will surely see the team enter a spiral of burnout that I can only solve by adding dramatically more people or radically reducing our commitments. This will negatively affect our business, potentially putting the entire team's jobs at risk.

Maybe pitch less work for your team? Set more realistic goals ? Fight for them?

Not every business is a startup fighting to survive or grow like hell within a year. Some businesses have been around for decades and are in a comfortable place, they can very easily ramp up or down the amount of work they have to accomplish to keep talent happy.

And how can you manage hundreds of engineer?

I listen to the whole team. Including the people who have to pick up the work left by the person on leave. Don’t get me wrong, I insta-approve leave requests that are measured in months. A year is just too long.

Your capacity planning is off. If a few people out of hundreds are out sick, this should in no way affect the others as a whole.

"out sick" is one thing. Taking a full year off is another. Our capacity plans include set aside time for people for sick leave, vacations, meetings, and things like "Hack week", etc. We don't have capacity set aside for people to take a year off like it ain't no thang.

That's a problem for you. It's not a problem in Germany when a few people out of hundreds are out healing.

> Once enough people do that, I have exhausted the capacity of the team and will surely see the team enter a spiral of burnout that I can only solve by adding dramatically more people or radically reducing our commitments. This will negatively affect our business, potentially putting the entire team's jobs at risk.

There it is: address the issue before enough people do that. There will only be lots of people taking a year off if you ran them into the ground, if capacity planning is decent you won't have a significant percentage of the workforce out sick...

I had an opposite experience. I went to my manager and described how I felt when I was feeling like OP early in the pandemic. I couldn't tell if it was anxiety, burnout or both.

He recommended an immediate two week vacation to clear my head and told me to plan my next vacation for two weeks 6 months out from my last vacation so that there was a constant light at the end of the tunnel. He was empathetic, and explained losing me would be costly and that he wants to avoid that. Had I not spoken up I would have ended up giving up a great job at a great company for what was mostly inside my own head.

I also went to my doctor and got anti-anxiety medication and that seemed to help. Now that I no longer had physical manifestations of my issues, and that fact that I was getting feedback that I was valued and that my health mattered, it really calmed me down.

If you have decent manager, they want to see you succeed, and they care about your well being. If they don't, bailing from the position is probably in your best interest anyways. Either way, it's an opportunity to see where you stand. Letting go will feel good in the short term, but maybe not so good long term. Doing nothing and hiding it will likely exacerbate the issue. I would say something, I at the very least deserve to be heard. What they do with the details is on them, not you.

This is excellent, it’s great you had this experience. Mine was the opposite: we hired a replacement for my former boss, and at our first 1:1, I told her I was desperately burned out and unable to really accomplish much. She said, you can take vacation after we accomplish some big team goals.

That's certainly better then GTFO. I probably would have tried to establish a rapport first but given the circumstances I can understand why you wanted to confide in new leadership. The good news is she played her cards early and hopefully that gave you enough details or indicators to consider moving on. We've all had bad managers and the best thing we can do as employees is firing them when they treat us less than human. Also, I think success is the best revenge... Hope you're feeling better, sorry you had to deal with that.

Both kinds of results are possible.

But to prevent the worse, just don't tell.

I took me a while to realize this (at the end of a burnout now, working 2 days a week) but things not being done was and still is a major stressor for me. I am now actively looking for stuff to do that has a clear beginning and end. Give me input, I'll provide the output and go on to the next thing.

> Yes, if possible several months or a year

How many positions in 2022 allow one to take several months to a year off and still have a job at the end?

1. You should almost certainly talk to your boss, unless your boss is emotionally incompetent or disinterested in your well-being. Remember that you don't have to finish the conversation in the same session you start it.

2. Almost certainly! But remember that work/life balance doesn't just mean leaving work, it means having something you want to do that isn't work.

2a. I know what you mean about boredom, but my brother pointed something out to me at a resort in Cancun, which I was finding absolutely boring: The place is supposed to be that, because it forces you to relax.

3. Yes. I don't have any advice about specifically what, but I would strongly recommend that you just start changing things. This'll both break feelings of stagnation/stasis, and if you're lucky, actually be an improvement. But the important part isn't that you find the right change, it's that things start changing.

4. What we do is fundamentally creative, and fundamentally knowledge-work. Most of us started doing it because we like it, so it's easier for us to over-do it; and over-doing is, AFAIK, more susceptible to burn-out because you're forcing your mind into uncomfortable arrangements. I guess you could think of burnout as RSI for your creativity.

Think about how you get physically strong:

1. Pick up heavy things

2. Put them down

3. Take a nap.

This is true for mental (and emotional!) strength as well.

For tech and burning out, it's important to know that the lack of a clear output or goal can increase the likelihood of burnout. Double that if you have little control over your environment due to technical decisions made where you had not useful input.

If you're at severe burnout, which it's definitely sounding like, consider taking a leave of absence (LOA). Time can vary between a couple of weeks to a couple of months, YMMV. If you can afford the LOA, rediscovering things you love is going to help.

Places to start thinking about investing some time are a) physical activity, like weightlifting or hiking; b) learning something new, ideally from a different stack than you've been working on; c) trying to spend more time on hobbies to see if you can find a sense of satisfaction in creating or completing a task, particularly if you can form social bonds at the same time. That said, if you're not good at handling boredom and don't think that having time to do _whatever you want_ is going to be helpful, ease into this step.

If you do stay at your job, try to find different responsibilities. Have a good conversation with your boss (if you can) where you explain that you need to rotate to a new responsibility where you can have a greater sense of mastery and control. Being able to determine your own success and failure can help recover from the hopelessness that goes with burnout.

No matter what, take the time to actively invest in self-care. Not "I'm sitting on the couch" self-care, exercising and eating better self-care. Staying up late learning something you've always wanted to self-care. Painfully changing your life so tomorrow is better self-care.

Good luck, and PM if you want to get to talk. I'm just finishing an LOA for burnout myself, and it's been a trip.

Did you consider medical leave instead of LOA? Medical leave should be paid at some capacity.

I took a medical LOA. Who... did not pay out. I'm glad I'm in Washington State in the USA, they gave medical leave pay, as opposed to the STD and LTD insurance I assumed would actually help.

Can you explain? The insurance didn't pay you anything during your medical leave?

There's no right answer for those questions.

I've burned out twice. Both times I quit. Took a year off between the two. I travelled both times, and then just had my own routine at home. I had no problem finding another job when it was time to come back.

- You can tell your boss. Expect sympathy, but, any plan that works for you is probably one you'll have come up with.

- If you leave, I'd recommend not dictating when it'll end up front. Say three months if people ask, but what you really mean is in three months you'll reassess if you need more time off. No actual deadlines.

- I don't know about you, but for me as a senior eng at a startup, work eats into all hours of day / weekend. Do an 8-4. Not one minute more. No weekend. No slack on your phone. No on call. No evenings.

Be kind to yourself friend. <3 Come up with a routine. I found my days filled up without work as they did with, but taking showers, cooking meals for myself, etc. was important.

Did those break change your attitude when going back onto the market ?

I'm feeling less naive and more picky, which also makes me more curious and more motivated. As if a kind of freedom grew. A necessary one.

It informed some questions I'd ask in interviews, informed some push back I'd give following crunches, and made contemplating subsequent departures seem less unsurmountable.

Best of wishes to you. :)

> I've burned out twice

When you say "burn out" can you describe what it feels like? Is it like depression?

First, I'd highly recommend you get a Swedish massage.

I know it sounds frivolous, but the massage will work like a magic pill on you right now. There's been some research on it – but basically persistent stress makes your body tense, and then even if your mental stress is gone, your body's tenseness keeps you on fight or flight mode. You shouldn't make any decisions in this mode.

A 60 minute massage will untangle this stiffness and put you on the right mindset to make the best next decisions.

About 7 years ago I got a massage and went to a store in a location that usually caused me a ton of stress due to the driving and the parking and how overcrowded the store gets. After the massage I did not experience any stress; 0, none, zip, zilch. My muscles were completely relaxed and had 0 stress in them.

At that moment I realized that stress doesn't cause tightness, but tightness causes stress, for me. Relaxed muscles relaxes my mind.

If you can find bath houses (in SF there's a... Russian? bathhouse, in LA there's lots of Korean bath houses - Wi Spa is probably the most popular), you can combine both a spa day (hello hot/cold plunges!) with massages. Highly recommend the combination.

There are Korean and Japanese bathhouses in SF as well actually. Also a Korean one in San Leandro.

Maybe UBI won't make it but universal free massage should really land.

As someone that has gone through something similar and recently got out of it.

Seems like you haven't started to make any plans on what to change. I'd wait to talk to your manager/company until you have a better idea of what you need. But then do, maybe they offer some extended time off, maybe they have other mental health resources available. If they do try to make use of them.

Take your time. Don't think you'll be back to where you were any time soon if ever. Maybe your work life will be different from here on out. Maybe you'll have to live with it. Prioritizing companies with good work/life balance is a must.

If you have the means definitively take some time off. The more the better. Or take a part-time job if you still need some income.

No hobbies no problem. Play video games, watch movies, netflix and do exercises every day. It's important to keep your mind and body moving with something that is stress free.

If you don't want to do anything, just sit or lay in bed all day. Look for a psychologist. This is not normal, you need treatment and it's available, is easy and it works. It just takes some time to find the right med. Don't let yourself be depressed.

When you are interested again try to create a hobby project, even if it doesn't generate any income, learn a new framework or language, or whatever technical that sparks interest in you. As you build interest again in work stuff you'll miss work.

> Should I tell my boss and/or team? Should I tell them right away, or wait until I know what other steps I want to take? What should I expect their reactions to be?

No there're not your family. You need to talk with a professional and take decision together.

> Should I take time off? How much? Or should I try to work reduced hours?

It's impossible to say. Everyone is different. Some need to work part time, others a month off and others 2y. When I did my burn out at first it's 4 months, after 6 and at the end it's a year. Again decision with a professional. Evaluation every month at first.

Depend also your country/insurance. For me it's easy because I live in EU, so my salary was paid at 80% while i was taking care of myself for a 1y.

> If I continue working, is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Think of senior engineer in a typical DevOps-y SaaS startup.

Again need a professional and long conversations. May be it's the environement or the job itself.

> Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about? I feel like this isn't exactly rare.

Because it's always the same. Managers think when we add or remove features, it's just lego. You re-assign 1 ticket 3 others come.

Did I just read that you got 80% of your salary while doing absolutely nothing for a year? Congrats, but we aren't all so incredibly lucky.

Not OP, but some insurance polices for long term disability could cover major depression or other mental illness. Will depend on the policy, company, etc. and would probably not be a bad idea to consult a lawyer/doctor.

Yes (Belgium ♥)

"Nothing" is not a vacation. Mental health problem is a bitch. In this whole 1y, for 4 months I was in a bad place.

He wasn’t doing nothing, he was taking care of his health. Would you react the same if he was treating cancer?

Burnout is real and really, really bad. It is a lot of suffering. Don’t be snarky to people about worst experiences of their lives.

It sounds like you've taken the first step and sought professional help. The only thing I've ever found that helps burnout is two things:

    1. Remove yourself from the environment is causing the burnout.
    2. Find fulfilling activities that do not come from your employment in the IT industry.

"I'm hesitant because I don't have many hobbies (if any) and in the middle of the pandemic there isn't much to do anyway"

That's the burnout speaking. I suspect you might feel the same way even if the pandemic was completely over. Getting yourself on the path to recovery will help with this, and you'll be amazed at all the hobbies you can do (even in a pandemic) that sound interesting and worthwhile.

Best of luck, I hope you're able to get into a situation that allow you to recover and find some satisfaction in your current career in the future.

I don't know if I would tell your boss / team. For now, I would keep it to yourself and take it as an opportunity to step back a bit. Still do work, but don't kill yourself.

Your lack of hobbies is probably directly related to this. I'm not sure how many hours you're working but have they led you to trim your free time?

Don't let yourself work overtime, and try to find something you love to do instead of work. Reading, exercising, anything. Commit to loving yourself everyday.

If you can, take some vacation when your comfortable.

It's just a job.

If you don't believe that, or thing that sounds petty or stupid, ask yourself why.

Do you feel like you need the job to survive financially? Work on that. Go read about FIRE. Look at how much money you spend and make. Pay off debt. Build a cushion. Spend less. Figure out how to get out of that hole until you can look at your paycheck in one hand and the pile of bullshit from your job in the other, and say "it's just a job."

Do you feel like you'd never find another job? Start career development. Take classes. Get certificates. Learn new skills. Tell your boss you need time at work for personal development to keep relevant and contribute at your company. Get them to pay for it. Get yourself to the point where if you had to walk, you have three other places begging to take you. You can say it's just a job if there are many more out there waiting for you.

Lack of sleep, depression, exhaustion, stress, and other physical and mental issues are a big problem, and those need to be addressed. Eat right, sleep enough, take care of yourself, see a doctor, see a therapist. Lots of good advice on this thread, and some of it may work, some of it may not. But as long as your life is defined by your job, you'll come back and the same thing will happen again. It's just a job. Tell yourself that until you believe it.

I took 6 months off work and was thankful every morning I had been wise enough to have healthy savings for "a rainy day". In those 6 months I introduced some life changing habits and reassessed life's priorities. Ironically, the burnout was probably the best thing which ever happened to me, both mentally and physically.

what did you do for those 6 months if i may ask?

Pretty much anything but stare at a computer screen all day. Plenty of exercise (I clocked up thousands of kms cycling), healthy eating, spending time with family and friends, reading (although on a tablet), exploring new music, etc.

It's surprising how much you can do at zero (or almost zero) cost. I never felt like the clock was counting down to get well again which was enormously beneficial psychologically.

I would like to write a much bigger reply but for right now, these are my core principles for dealing with, and now preventing, burnout.

Exercise, get outside once a day, get a daily routine in place, sleep better

Disclaimer, I am not a doctor or a psychologist.

I have a contrarian opinion (that I have also posted here several times) that burnout is not merely a symptom of overwork but actually a symptom of missed behavioural prediction error: Your brain has taught itself that effort => failure, and so the motivation to put more effort into things is decreased.

The first step to understanding and overcoming it is a root cause analysis -- identify when you started putting in extra effort, what you thought you'd get out of it, and what you thought you'd get out of it that you didn't get. It might have been a promotion, a pay raise, a bonus, or social validation. Or, if there was a negative reinforcement that succeeded your valiant efforts (e.g. people shitting on your open-source project).

If you believe my thesis, then possibly the absolute worst thing you can do is to go on vacation right now (this is rewarding the cycle of not putting in effort). Rather, plan a vacation for yourself, say 3 months from now, (and if you want to be brutally effective, plan to cancel or bump the time of your vacation if you don't recover from burnout by then).

What you want to do from now till then is to build back up your work motivation. Work on a ton of tiny tasks that are almost certainly going to succeed, like that refactoring that you've put off, or writing tests. These are really good because they will give you primary stimulus (making those red dots go green) that provide you a pop of dopamine, rewarding you for the small amounts of work that you've done. Also, do small things, like "cook a meal" which take effort, and celebrate yourself for putting the effort into things, and meals are great because they are their own reward (unless you horribly mess it up).

I haven't generally burnt out (I have burnt out on individual projects) for more than about 2 weeks in a decade or so since I adopted this strategy.

I’ve heard it said that burnout is: exhaustion, inefficacy and depersonalization. It sounds like you’ve spent a lot of time on the second cause and maybe the third one. If you’re exhausted too on top of that, some time off before working back up efficacy is very helpful.

This is a great advice! I've been using a similar healing strategy for my last burn out. Essentially the desire to do something is the brain's expected reward for doing such thing. Burn out happens when the expected reward has become negative due to recent cycles of the feedback loop (i.e. constantly failing on a project). What you want to do is something that is guaranteed to succeed. After some cycle of work => success feedbacks (how long this takes various) you'll feel better about work and be as productive as before.

Not a shrink but these clues all seem to point to depression. Very much worth looking into clinically AND with an open mind.

As far as should you tell your boss and/or team: my highly sophisticated algorithm for this is, if you were the boss, would you want to be notified? It's not smart to tell the team: it would percolate to the boss in a distorted form anyway, but also it's up to your boss to deal with the issue properly.

I have a todo list of about 6 million things to do before I die so I can't empathize very well with the boredom thing. My instinct though is that it's very good for you to be challenging yourself somehow. If not with a hobby, then maybe something like sports/self defense/meditation would do the trick.

I think you're going through something bigger than it may seem at the moment. Good luck on your journey.

> Think of senior engineer in a typical DevOps-y SaaS startup.

This stands out to me. If I thought of my work as "typical", I'd ask myself whether what I'm doing is worth my time. Whether it's fulfilling and has purpose. Whether I'm having an impact on the work and whether the work has an impact on whatever problem is being solved. That on its own is enough to cause me feeling burnt out, especially over a multi-month period of time.

"I don't have many hobbies (if any) and in the middle of the pandemic there isn't much to do anyway."

This was a huge issue for me over the last year. It has made a huge impact to my work life to finally have activities outside of work I enjoy doing again.

I've gone through two burnouts in my career. The first time around, I tried CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy), with limited results. Recently, I followed the Huberman protocol for sleep [1] and daily tools [2], with profound results. Recovery time was respectively 12 months (CBT) and 3 months (Huberman). YMMV

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm1TxQj9IsQ

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4

The first video took me quite a while. I watched it on NewPipe with subtitles on at 3x.

TL;DW:

1. As soon as you wake up each morning, expose yourself to 5-10 minutes of the sun, or the brightest light you can find (ideally above 10000 lux, going outside is much more effective than a lamp or window).

2. At the end of the day, reduce light, especially blue light. Ideally, also go out during sunset, to give your body a cue that the day is ending.

3. Mindfully time when to eat and exercise (details did not fit in the 1.3h video). In evenings, disconnect or meditate to relax.

4. Consider the drugs you take and their effects on the circadian rhythm. Magnesium threonate 300mg makes you sleepy.

Do tell your boss & team, but after you've thought a little bit about what you want your next steps to be. Their reactions can vary a lot - bad bosses might instantly fire you and look for someone else who's more productive, good bosses will work with you to improve your well-being while you remain on the payroll. You should be prepared for the former reaction even as you hope for the latter.

The answer to the next question will depend upon how the conversation with your boss goes. You might want to completely disconnect and quit. You might want to work 1-2 days/week, supporting your team for questions but moving off of deadline-critical parts. You might want to shift into a different role entirely; oftentimes doing something different can cure burnout. Some or all of these options might be available to you depending on what your boss says, or he may suggest something entirely different.

For the last two questions - I've heard that burnout is basically the result of loving something or someone for a prolonged period of time without them loving you back. Code will never love you back, which is one reason why tech and other knowledge workers are particularly at risk for burnout. But it happens with politicians, managers, and romantic relationships as well. It sounds like coding is a major part of your life; as hard as it may be, you may want to cultivate other things you love (perhaps including hobbies, or people) and view your work with more professional detachment. Yes, this probably means you'll be less effective at it, but it's also more sustainable.

I'll throw this out there: Don't let any potential diagnosis drive your behavior. Do what feels right for you, because that's more important than trying to conform to any specific "remedy" that's commonly paired with what you're told you "have".

For example, if taking a break would create even more stress (financial stress, boredom stress, etc), don't do it.

But more importantly, do what your doctor says, up to and including ignoring all advice here!

- I didn't tell my team because I didn't have the energy to. They called me and asked what's wrong. Then I took 3 months off. Then got back with 25% basically staring at a screen doing nothing then walk home. I did this for another month.

- Summer came. - I started therapy and joined a group that helped me understand my behaviour of perfectionism etc. Most helpful 12 week programme.

- I played video games to offload my brain, as I couldn't focus or read text

- I started painting also - was awful at school hated drawing etc, but turned out together with video games it was the only thing that could put off that load on my brain.

- I basically took a stance to never go back again to IT. It didn't work out though but I'm in a more aware situation and don't put too much load on myself. Another thing is that I realised it's just not for me to code, to keep worrying about systems, wondering what might break etc. I'm really more of a practical guy.

- So right now I'm trying to shift my focus where I can recognize my strengths first. Being at a desk is not really that, and that's hard to realize though.

Burnout is really...your overheated engine in the car. You can't use it. At least that's how it was for me.

I could write a lot more but DM if you need anything.

Can you provide details about the 12 week programme that you mentioned? What kind of a program is it?

CBT - cognition based therapy. You can search for burnout + cbt therapy e.g.

Depending on symptoms the program can be longer.

Mental health issues are routinely recognized as serious health issues. I work for a major US company and employees are encouraged to take short-term or long-term disability leave, yes even for mental health issues. You are already paying for it. Check your benefits and talk to professionals to make sure it is properly handled.

After confirming your benefits and speaking with healthcare professional, talk to HR before your manager. Your manager may not know all the benefits available or try to hide them from you.

Take as long as you need to recover. You may not have hobbies but sometimes vegging out in front TV for a few days is all you need to recover.

Also forget about all the healthy stuff like exercise, meditation, etc. Just sleep as long as you can. Burning out means your body is under maximum stress. You don't want to add to your plate. Remove things from it.

Relaxing experiences maybe okay like massages, bathes, a slow walk.

Finally, ancedata, I know someone who was getting burned out. They didn't show up for work for a week. When they got back, their boss was furious but they said they were burned out. HR got involved. Boss got in trouble for creating unhealthy work environment. Person was told to take more time off and see a therapist. This was at a major US company.

This will be a USA centric response because while other countries have very different options I assume that like me you are in the states.

I'd start by seeing a therapist.

It's nice to have someone to speak with about your issues that can help provide guidance.

I spent better part of a decade working every day I was awake. Started seeing a therapist after working with some truly horrible people who now face serious repercussions for their actions.

Recently, I splurged on some retro game stuff. I spent years ignoring retro gaming. I thought these were relics for immature man children who lived in their parents basement. My wife also hates the look so I had spent years not only turning a blind eye toward them but also putting what I did own since childhood into storage for when we started a family. Once I went down the rabbit hole of some retro games I don't think I'll be looking back. I found that not only are they fun to play but I have a passion for restoring them. I started by re-learning how to repair integrated circuits (I hadn't used a soldering iron in 20 years before this). Now I plan to save as many as I can.

All I'm saying, start by talking to someone who will listen and you can feel comfortable talking with. A therapist was good for me because you pay them to be your confidant. Mental health is like any other part of your body you care for.

I would however absolutely not let any co-workers or representatives of your employer know what you are going through. There is a terrible stigma around mental health and it will be perceived as a disability/weakness by some in a manner that could impact your livelihood.

> Should I tell my boss and/or team?

It really depends. If your boss is generally a good person he'll be glad to know and try to help you. If he's a shitty person he might use it against you or think less of you. You should know or at least be able to guess which way he should be leaning. Not sure I'd tell the team though, this should be between you and your boss for now, it shouldn't become the company's gossip.

> I'm hesitant because I don't have many hobbies (if any) and in the middle of the pandemic there isn't much to do anyway.

To me that is telling something. It's quite possible you also have a mild depression going on (and could be that the burnout is exacerbated by it). What I mean is it might be that things aren't as you'd like them to be in other areas of life, which can eventually hurt your job performance since your mental well being isn't great. Keep getting the support you need, be willing to make some changes. Rooting for you.

Whatever you do, my advice is don't do it from a place of fear or desperation.

Take the time you need to think about what's best, and delay irreversible decisions until you are in a good place to make them.

Do whatever you need to get into a good mental space so you can think about what's the best course of action for you.

Very best wishes for the coming few months - may they open new doors of possibility and well being for you :pray :)

I was in that situation a few years. I took a year off to just fuck around and figure out what I wanted. Was a messy time in my life, but in the end it made me a better person. I do realize this isn't an option for everyone.

For me I think a big part of my problem was my lack of other hobbies that weren't IT-related.

Now I work part-time and try to spend time working on non-IT stuff as well, I've gotten into a bunch of different things in the years since then: Philosophy, strength training, latin, calligraphy, partner dancing. You don't have to do these things, but what they have in common is that they aren't keyboard-y things.

a similar situation happened at my company where management was informed of severe burnout. we didn't have a policy/SOP on it but created one where we gave our valued employee 2 weeks forced PTO and actually suspended their gsuite so they couldn't access work.

so far so good. employee came back after being able to finally catch up on life, we hit reset as a team and we're off and away.

this doesn't help prevent future burnout specifically but it was an initial step that showcased that we cared more about our employees' health than the company.

If you are working crazy hours then you need to cut back. If you cannot cut back hours beyond a normal work week, then you need to find a new job.

Find something to do in your spare time that interests you, something unrelated to your work.

Get out of the house, change your scenery. I find that leaving town, even just for a day, helps a lot. Go camping over night, get off the grid and disconnect. Getting fresh air and a little exercise goes a long way.

Don't discount the value of being bored, you might need to get bored before you figure out what to do with yourself.

If you have having issues with sleep, talk to your doctor about it. The last period of burnout I went through, sleep was a major issue. I could not sleep, no matter what. The stress and anxiety from work would keep me up or make me have trouble falling back asleep whenever I did wake up in the middle of the night. The only answer I could come up with was to eat an edible and drink some whiskey. It helped me get sleep, but terrible, horrible quality sleep.

Eventually, I had to go to my doctor and deal with it. They gave me a few different sleep drugs to try, and I found one that worked extremely well at not forcing me to sleep like a sedative, but helping me fall asleep and to stay asleep. Using the sleep meds and strictly enforcing my work hours plus a 2 week vacation was all that saved me (at this point I didn't care anymore, I simply got done what I could in 8hrs and the rest could fuck off).

It took about a month of 8hrs minimum per night of good quality sleep, but man did it make a big difference. After that everything mostly fell back into place. I've since kept the more strict work hours and have taken on a role that actually has me learning new things vs. grinding out mass amounts of tedious but important work. I do work too much still, but I cap it ~ 50hrs a week and take as much flexibility as I can with it. No meetings until 10am and I was online until 8pm the night before? Cool, I'll be in at 10 and will hit the gym before work so I have more family time after work. No more bending backwards to get everything done.

Can you share what sleep meds helped you? Are you still taking them? My primary care doctor is not a big fan of sleeping meds. He also told me they are designed for short term use.

Sure. Belsomra seems to work the best for me (tried another drug in this same class, and the generic of Ambien I believe). The Belsomra class of drugs block 'wake receptors' vs. making you feel tired and putting you to sleep. There's more to it than that, but that's what I was told and it seems to be accurate. The Ambien made me feel terrible the next day, and the other drug gave me a sensation in my limbs that I didn't like. Hard to explain, but it felt like heightened sensation or something like that.

Both my primary car physician and myself aren't fans of sleeping meds either, but I absolutely needed something to help me sleep at the time.

They absolutely are for short term use. I haven't needed the meds again since, but I have a prescription filled in case I experience insomnia again. If I do, I'll likely do a sleep study as well to rule out any other issues.

Thank you for sharing! I don't understand the short term use though. I know multiple people taking sleeping meds for 20-30 years and they are doing fine. They are all old but still. One of them is 91 and he has been taking the meds since his 60s.

You need a reason beyond money to do what you are doing. Without that you burn out quick and it takes a long time to recover. Find the reason and if there isn't one do something else.

In the first semester of COVID my mind crashed. I could not balance between job and time with my family, my wife had lost her job the week before COVID and the real state into which I had invested before COVID was idle. All this had happened after taking a promotion in a different city in Germany. The ambitious thriving younger me turned to someone full of dispair and self blame in few months. Those harmful feelings drag me into a depression that lasted around 5 months. I told my boss, but I did not take leave. I took running 3x week as mandatory habit, found a long term tenant for my Airbnb apartment, and set a mid-term goal with my wife: moving to Berlin. That boosted me for the first semester 2021. We moved to Berlin in July, found a nice school for my 2yo daughter, and my wife changed her career from Graphic Designer to Software Developer. However, after all those changes, my mind crashed again. Depression tends to come back and I still lacked of proper self-awareness.

I started to broaden my reading topics: psycology and neuroscience to understand my behavior; philosophy to improve my thinking; and physics to make my environment more relative. Besides, I engaged into long term therapy.

I have learnt to understand myself better, to lower my ambitions, and most of all, to prioritize my family. Besides, I decided not to make my free time productive: just reading, going to cinema, and taking walks out. That has reduced my anxiety and I have hope that soon I could be a more sustainable professional with more settled ambitions. I am thankful I did not lose my job and my family.

Everyone has different needs. I just wanted to share my experience

I agree with the statements above getting healthier and sleep.

What I did was quit for a year (I understand not everyone has the means). I told my boss I wanted to travel and I found it hard to balance it with work because my schedule is so unpredictable. He asked if I wanted a shorter sabbatical, and I said no because I had plans to places I wanted to travel throughout the year. I wanted to leave without burning bridges and we were slightly in a busy time, I said my quit date was flexible to whenever we get past the busy time.

I ended up splitting my year off at home and traveling. I previously backpacked parts of Asia for a month and found that going to country to country every few days to be overwhelming. So this time I would go some place on my bucket list and then come back to the US (such as spend a month driving around New Zealand and hiking for two weeks in Scotland). Again, I realize not everyone can do this, but to the extent you can/want to, think of things to knock off your bucket list.

After a year, my boss came back to me to ask if I was interested in coming back, which I did. I felt the year off helped cleared my head. Yes, you will get bored, but you will get some clarity. And since I have come back, I have been better of setting my schedule (it also helps that the office has expanded and I am no longer filling in every spot).

Everybody's different, and there are no guaranteed solutions that'll work for everyone.

That said, if your diagnosis is accurate and you have serious occupational burnout, then I'd seriously consider switching careers to something radically different from what you're doing now -- and the sooner the better.

The longer you wait, the less realistic switching careers will be, and then you might be forced to keep working at a job you hate, which can drive some to suicide or severe mental breakdown.

Psychedelic therapy might help, but I wouldn't look at it as a way to become chipper and go cheerily back to work but as a way to have a deep, hard look at your life and reconnect with what truly matters (which might not be work-related at all).

Ultimately, you have to somehow reconnect with the strength and sense of meaning within you, because at the end of it all no one else can fix your life... but having a strong support network can help. Don't go it alone, and reconnect as much as possible with those who you care about and who care about you. But at the same time, friends and family are not trained professionals, and there's only so much they can do, so it's important to find a therapist you respect, like, trust, and can open up to.

Good luck, and I hope this disease doesn't swallow you up like it has so many of us.

- Should I tell my boss and/or team?

This depends on how your relationship with your boss is and how they are. I once encountered the start of burn out and told my boss, and he said to go do something fun. So I played video games while he covered for me and let me know if I was needed for a meeting. It was great and I skirted burn out.

- Should I take time off? How much? Or should I try to work reduced hours?

I have taken up backpacking and have loved taking a day off or two to go out into the woods. I really love just disconnecting from the world.

- If I continue working, is there something in my working environment I should try to change?

Maybe try different text editors? I don't know if doing that would bring more stress as you have to learn new stuff. But, maybe you want to learn it, its up to you.

- Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about?

Burnout as I have been told and experienced is normal, but its usually a sign that something is off like a lot more work has been thrown at you or your team, or you feel like your contributions are not getting the attention you want. Or, you just want to not work because your brain is tired of always working.

As for boredom and not liking it, I have found that it pays to do nothing some times and just daydream at home, doing absolutely nothing. It helps my brain rest and clear out all its stressors.

Also keep in mind this advice is what works for me, but it may work for you. Take it with a grain of salt.

- Should I tell my boss and/or team? Should I tell them right away, or wait until I know what other steps I want to take? What should I expect their reactions to be?

Yes and No. Yes if you believe your boss will be supportive to help you find a work-life balance. No if you don't think so and just try to work less to recover.

Both? Use your time to recover and work reduced hours. Find new hobbies and get bored because that way you will be more creative and pursue passion projects. Maybe you're burned out because you don't have a hobby outside of work. Embrace being bored until creativity strikes for your next thing.

- If I continue working, is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Think of senior engineer in a typical DevOps-y SaaS startup.

Burnout in my experience comes from not having something better to do than work. Find hobbies, make friends, play games, read books, etc. It can also manifest in not being able to accomplish certain things at work, so talk to people and find ways to unblock yourself.

- Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about? I feel like this isn't exactly rare.

Not really. Maybe you just have been working too much and you're at the verge of a breakdown. Find things that make you happy. Right now, that's probably not a computer.

In my experience, the right answer totally depends on your employment situation and your relationship with your boss and team. I think the safest answer is to try and mix things up for yourself (try a new IDE, a new stack, a new OS, etc) without telling your team. For me--and I think maybe this is ideal for most--you would have a good working relationship with your boss and you could use them to help you find a way out of the rut. Maybe that means transitioning to a new team, new project, or something else.

In the past when I've experienced burnout, I didn't get over it by powering through it. Taking time off without filling the void with something meaningful also wasn't the answer for me. I wanted to work and to stay busy, but I needed to find a problem that I could latch on to and be truly interested in. Since I enjoy learning, trying new patterns and new tools was usually enough for me. There was one past episode of burnout where I simply had to find a new company because nothing that company did was exciting to me anymore.

Good luck.

Start sleeping 10+ hours a day for a while.

I have horrible insomnia and would be thrilled with 4+ hours/day. Your notion that one could just sleep any amount at will is a wilder fantasy than the ones I have about Scarlett Johannson. Nothing helps: drugs, meditation, quitting caffeine, dietary changes, exercise, etc.

I'm sure people are always telling you things to try, but in case it helps - have you tried the 4-7-8 breathing technique for sleep, or Wim Hof? Both are fairly rapid in effect, and help manage cortisol.

Thank you. I have, and to no avail. I really appreciate the suggestion though

> Your notion that one could just sleep any amount at will is a wilder fantasy than the ones I have about Scarlett Johannson.

I have family telling me to "just sleep more" as if i wouldn't do that if it was in my control.

I fucking hate that

> Your notion that one could just sleep any amount at will

I'm sorry about your situation but I believe most people can sleep 10+ hours if they want, under the right conditions.

A boy can dream can’t he

I assume you talked to a doctor about it? Insomnia is the worst - you have my sympathy. I personally have recurring short lived bouts (falling exhausted at 12, only to wake up 3 hours later unable to sleep again, repeat every day). My dad had terrible insomnia too, I think I'm just prone to it. I know I am likely HSP too, so my brain is hardwired to react more strongly than normal to stimulus. I find a pitch black room helps a lot. Beyond that, trying to reduce stress as much as I can, but being a parent, and working in tech, it isn't so easy.

Thank you very much. Yes, I just saw my doctor today. I have no thyroid so we are adjusting my thyroid meds, which may help a little. It did once before, so I’m a little hopeful. She also prescribed a new sleep medicine I haven’t tried yet (although that’s not my ideal way of handling this. I would rather get to the roots but after 50 years I don’t think it’ll help much.

I am pretty resistant to sleeping pills, I did find Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) around 50mg to work very well for me. Not the best solution, but getting 4 hours of sleep is definitely worse, I've been there quite a few times.

Thanks! Tried it but it just made me sleepy but not able actually to sleep. I very much appreciate the thought.

Take it seriously. Take a break, at least a month, preferably 2 or 3. I lost my best DBA 3 months ago due to burnout and I was on the verge of burning out myself, then I jumped out to an extended vacation. So far (4 weeks later) it did not do wonders, but it helps. It depends on the relation you have with your manager, but if you got burned out it usually means you don't have a good one (he does not care enough). If you continue working there is very little chance to improve anything, but try to work just 8 hours a day and disconnect the rest of the day and the entire weekend; I was working more than 80 hours a week, but my DBA was doing just 40 and the extra stress of these times hit him harder. Find a hobby that is relaxing and spend time doing that, but make sure it is relaxing.

Whenever I feel down, I remember one powerful book I've read: "White on Black" [1]. It is in Russian and was written by a person born with a cerebral palsy, who had survived in soviet orphanage. The very vivid depiction of a life of a person with severe disability just forces you to better appreciate things you are taking for granted: like a capability to walk on your own and have working hands. This is what matters, and all other problems are transitory and should be treated as such.

Unfortunately, I don't know if a translation to English exists.

[1]: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B5...

In a similar vein, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's about an Austrian psychologist who experiences the holocaust firsthand. It's partly a description of the events that unfold, but also his thesis on his work called "logotherapy". A book about a person surviving the holocaust might strike you as really grim, but he brings a lot of humanity to the situation and it really makes you appreciate the life you have.

I found out that I was too focused on material things but health is way more important.

If you don't have good health, everything else is useless - a big house is no benefit when you lie down in bed all day.

So your health should be above everything else - try to build a healthy lifestyle, then you can do the next steps.

> Should I take time off? How much? Or should I try to work reduced hours? I'm hesitant because I don't have many hobbies (if any) and in the middle of the pandemic there isn't much to do anyway. I don't think running out of things to do would be any better for my health than continuing as-is. I've been there before and I don't handle boredom well.

I had a similar mindset, I've been very cautious with regards to covid and haven't taken a real vacation since 2019. Since I banked a lot of PTO, I ended up taking every Friday off from September until January. I still have feeling of burnout, but it definitely helped to lessen it.

It can feel like a half-meausure, but it may be one that doesn't feel as extreme for you or you boss/job which may be helpful.

First and foremost you must realize that you are not owing your company anything. They already paid you for your work and that is the end of that transaction. You may feel like you cannot let people hanging on a human level - that is ok. But people will understand that you take time off when your health it at stake.

Second, take some time off. Burnout can sometimes be hard to shake off when you are still at work. You may be scared of having so much time on your hands, but you can always go back to work :)

Think about starting therapy. Often burn outs are not because of actual external pressure, but because of the internal pressure we put on ourselves because we put on ourselves. If the root cause is not solved, there is so point in going back to work because it will happen again.

Quit get a low stress low thinking job if you can afford to. Preferably something physical. Keep up the therapy, listen to them more than us. Slowly you'll start to long to get back I to tech, you'll be able to think again. Then go back and enjoy it again.

First off, I'd like to point you to Richard Feynman talking about burnout [1].:

While taking time off isn't a bad idea, you may find you immediately burn out again on returning to work. The goal should be figuring out how to work sustainably. I'm sure I'll echo a lot of other voices here, but here is some practical advice from a manager and someone who's recovered from burnout:

First, if you've been working more than forty hours a week, scale it back. Let your manager know you've been having health issues and will be trying out lifestyle adjustments which may mean your velocity could drop as you cut back to a more sustainable schedule. This is important, since your velocity is going to drop no matter what and you want to get ahead of that with your manager. If anyone wants more detail and you don't feel comfortable saying no, focus on the symptoms and not the cause. Sharing that you're burnt out can inadvertantly come out as blame.

Second, when you aren't working, don't use computers or do anything remotely similar to your work routine for at least a couple weeks. You may not know what to do with yourself at first. Exercise, hiking, or a non-tech side project are things to consider. The important thing is to find something to think about that isn't work.

Finally, SLEEP! This will likely be the hardest part, as your burnout related symptoms are ultimately caused by poor sleep. The other steps you're taking are in service of making this step easier. Allocate at least 9 hours of time for sleep every night. Melatonin can help in the short term if you find it difficult to sleep early enough, but keep in mind you'll probably have lots of dreams and wake up groggy until you've adjusted.

Burn out is common in tech because most of us love what we do. However, love of what we do plus stress can mean an inability to disengage, which results in poor sleep. Poor sleep creates a general feelings of unwellness and inability to think clearly. This will happen to the best of us from time to time. However, if you prioritize your recovery, you'll bounce back pretty fast.

Good luck to you!

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3874875 is the HN discussion for this post (the original HN link is broken) https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/kilcup.1/262/feynman.html

My recommendations:

Mental Health

_____

Get on an anti-anxiety medication if you can / want to. They can be really helpful to take the edge off for a while until you return to normal.

My therapist is the one I info-dump and bitch about work to. I don't have any particularly deep psychological trauma. I just want to pay someone to complain about work to, so they can give me feedback and things to try. It isn't fair to your friends and family to constantly be absorbing your pain.

I learned this the hard way after losing friends because I was "too negative and whiny."

Hobbies

_____

I read a book called "atomic habits" and I liked it a lot.

Basically, when I have a hobby, I track TIME, not "goals." Goals are too nebulous. Time is something I can keep track of easily and more time === more good at hobby. ( Kind-of. It is at least a decent metric to track. )

I picked up guitar, beer making, smoking meat, running, game development, all during the pandemic. I hear you! I just jumped around until I found something that stuck. Don't give up on finding a hobby! But don't stick with you you aren't enjoying.

Work

____

I wouldn't tell your work you are "burned out." People... can suck. And do you really need a bunch of opinions and attention around how stressed out and tired of the job you are? No, not really.

Maybe reach out to individuals privately if you want some support but also: see section 1: Your friends/coworkers are not your therapist.

As for specific reasons... for me it is other people. The work is fine, but dealing with personalities, and boredom, and stress... it gets exhausting.

Try to identify the people who are causing you the most stress and try to interact with them as little as possible. Keep a journal. If they are being outright abusive, write it down in the journal, and eventually you will have something you can present to justify your request to be distanced from them.

Take at least 3-4 weeks off.

If you can exercise or do other physical activities like going for a walk. Disconnect completely after work, get a feature phone. A lot of people having burnouts due to being over connected and even more so with remote work.

Walk really slow and try to be in the actual moment.

Do things you’ve been putting off for ever due to feeling burned out. That book that’s been sitting on the shelf for a year, that lego set or doodling book or the guitar you swore you were going to learn.

See people for a coffee, drink or other activity.

Avoiding burnout is often about learning the painful lessons of separating your professional life from your actual life and it’s not an easy task.

We tend to forget to stop and smell the roses.

“I don't handle boredom well”

Learn to handle boredom well. It’s a critical life skill that only becomes more important as you age. Better to learn that skill now, rather than deal with crippling depression in the face of enforced boredom from health events and the like.

Develop a few hobbies. Never in the history of human experience has it been easier to pick up a hobby. You may want to consider knitting vintage Volvos out of steel wool, but there are other directions to explore as well.

Defining yourself as someone who “can’t allow themselves to relax at the risk of coming down with a bad case of boredom” might be at the root of some of your feelings right now.

Do something completely different. I've been having a lot of fun putting fibre up on poles for the last few years. It's rewarding in a way that software isn't. Software is all about worrying about the mistakes I've made or might have made, whereas building real world infrastructure has an actual "it's done" aspect to it that software never has that is incredibly satisfying. And it works! Well, until a drunk driver or a propane delivery takes out a couple of poles or spans of fibre in the middle of the night and you have to go do some emergency splicing in -25C weather.

I once worked at a job that was a 1 hour car commute or a 2 hour bike ride. I typically did the bike ride. Eventually work demands were intense and I felt like I needed the extra two hours. When leaving, I was given some of the best advice I had ever received. I was told that as soon as I started sacrificing those very long hours on bike, that my balance clearly went askew. That was the middle of a bad burn out. The advice was that work and life balance are connected, they are both gauges. Work always is a drag down, and your life being out of balance will drag both life and work down. The only way to increase both is to raise the life part of the equation. So while work will knock you down to 80%, having a life raises that back up to 90% so it can then go back down to 80% and repeat. Working better, harder, better projects (unless you are a founder or something special like that), never increases these gauges. So it's not a work/life balance per say, it's living life that allows you the capacity to do work at 100%.

Second, I've taken several extended breaks and they have helped. That was before pandemic. I found you need to take long enough where you start wanting to do work again. That is the sign burn out is over. How long that takes can really vary. Sometimes it's been 3 weeks, once it took 3 months, and another time it almost 6 months before I was ready to work again.

Some responses to your questions:

> If I continue working, is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Think of senior engineer in a typical DevOps-y SaaS startup.

Sometimes the key is to stop trying to change the things you cannot. Work is work, divorce yourself from some aspects of it and you will be freeing yourself from unnecessary stress of things you will not be able to change.

> Should I take time off? How much?

I'd say take a long weekend. See how much recovery that gives you. Maybe it'll give you a gauge of how long you will really need. My gut says at least 2 weeks.

> Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about? I feel like this isn't exactly rare.

This is a golden question. WTH do we all burn out so much?

You should tell your boss but I don't know what your boss is like, what your financial picture looks like, etc. Obviously if you think they're gonna fire you right away then maybe get your ducks in a row first. If you can afford time off then maybe see if your company is cool with you taking a sabbatical or see if you just need to put in your notice and then take a few months to decompress and work on your mental and physical health before re-entering the workforce with (hopefully) better perspective on what led you there and how to avoid it moving forward.

Yes tell your boss and work something out.

Your bosses reaction should be acknowledgement that your personal health takes priority over everything else because this is an obvious fact. Anything less is not acceptable. (Source: I am a boss).

The options you will receive depend on the company. Time off or part time is a good idea.

You don't need a plan to do 'something that's not work'. Don't worry about that part. Take the time off first and figure out the rest later. It might be a good time to visit friends/family as part of a holiday. Things are starting to open back up.

I'd add a bit of caution to this. Yes, tell your boss, but have some kind of plan in place first.

If the boss is a good boss, they will work with you and try to help. If your boss is not, things could get a bit more complicated.

In other words, be prepared for a boss that makes this your problem. If they do, that's a sign that you should probably be looking elsewhere anyway. That might also be a clue about where the burnout is coming from.

But bottom line, think through what your next steps look like if

a) Your boss is understanding, and wants to help (what do you want from them? how might they help? etc.)

b) Your boss is dismissive, or doesn't have the ability to help (will you look for another job that is less stressful, or focus on saving enough for a sabbatical, or other?)

Part of burnout is lack of balance. Don't get too crazy "into" anything right away. You should be looking to restore balance slowly until you feel normal. This might mean not doing much of anything for quite a while (months)

If you were a senior engineer you have enough money to recover. If you don't then you are in a rough spot. If you spent it whoops sell some toys to get by. If you were not paid enough to have money for this time its important to also understand that you were used and abused and probably have PTSD not only burn out.

Can you get a medical leave? I was/am in your shoes, and I managed to get a leave from a doctor (general doctor, then psychiatrist). After almost 2 months off I feel so much better. Of course this is likely to tip off your boss (I just didn't care any more, so wasn't an issue for me). After 4-6 weeks of just walks in nature and sleep fixing (medication included) I am now being highly encouraged by my therapist to get regular exercise, and also to find out what I want to do in my life.

I am European, this might matter.

What medication is helping you sleep if I may ask?

The psychiatrist prescribed me Trazodone and sticking to a strict sleep schedule. Needless to say those are not over-the-counter drugs so go to a doctor if you need them.

Also, in general it was very instructive for me to read carefully the Wikipedia page for occupational burnout.

Thanks. I tried Trazodone but the dry mouth side effect was too much for me.

All good advice here around sleep, physical fitness and diet.

Really look at your diet. I went through a period where I was finding it harder and harder to stay focused at work, and I attributed it to burnout. Then I started taking fish oil capsules for vitamin D and the problem magically went away.

I;m not saying that will work for you, but I am saying diet makes a HUGE difference to mood, ability to concentrate and general mental well-being. Sometimes you are just deficient in some essential nutrient.

But those are the big three. Sleep, diet and exercise.

For sleep, go and find Andrew Huberman's podcast on Spotify and listen to them in order.

I was in the same boat at my first startup (a series of 70-100 hour weeks and I was completely fried by year 2.)

I had accumulated (and untouched) vacation time, so I wrapped up anything critical, drove to SFO, got on a plane to Mexico, and stayed for two weeks. I did not bring my laptop. I did nothing but swim, go to the beach, read (physical) novels and have nice meals at restaurants.

Exercise and sunshine pulled me out of a truly devastating spiral; it may not work in the same way for you, but could it hurt?

Good luck: I really feel for you.

> a series of 70-100 hour weeks

wouldn't you have to go back to that and end up in the same situation again?

I experienced this last year as well. It was very difficult and unpleasant. What ultimately worked for me was taking significant time off, changing jobs, and moving to a new city. I also started reading some books like Atomic Habits which gave me some insights into how to short-circuit some destructive feedback loops I was participating in. I'm not entirely back to normal but I'm having fun at my job again and have much better rhythms now.

US Based? FMLA for 3-6 months. Go stare at something other than a screen for a while.

Assuming you have some sort of health, start walking (or some other exercise).

The pandemic and related things put a magnifying glass up against all the bits that tend to break over time. Everyone is suffering, you're probably lucky-ish that you can easily do something about it (I'm stereotyping here from being in a tech job rather than say hospitality or service industry).

It sounds like you need to hold onto your job for the time being. I would: Set boundaries (9 to 5, 8 to 3.. whatever you need them to be). When you're working, concentrate on work. When you're not working, don't accept calls / texts / work stuff. Go do something physical .. like walk for an hour or two, especially right after work. Put your health and yourself above your company.

I suffered severe burnout. Then medical episodes from the stress, during my extended leave (4 months). I quit while on leave and never stepped back into the office.

You need to be real with yourself. Is my job killing me?

If your job is the source of your stress, you need to leave. Find another workplace or job that doesn't suck.

Leaving a toxic workplace is the best decision you'll ever make.

Tell no one. Drink energy drinks. When it's not enough, drink more. Sleep 8. Wake up 10 years later with busted arteries and a great career. Yeaaa. Sippp.

No, seriously, I don't have any better advice.

P.S. The person saying sleep more is right. It will help you recover (partially) from the havoc the energy drinks wreak on your body.

Learned a couple of things that really helped me around sleeping:

1. Sleep is when your brain shifts processing power from consciousness/etc to maintenance. Like defragging a disk drive. When I can't sleep, I'll just try to focus on my body with this in mind, and it kinda works like sleep, and kinda helps me get closer to sleep.

2. If you're having trouble falling asleep, gently wrap the fingers of your dominant hand around the opposite thumb (you're just holding it). Do that for an estimated (do NOT count, or set a timer, or anything that requires focus) two minutes, then move to the next finger. It's fricking magic.

When I can't sleep and do these things, even if I don't wake up rested, I don't wake up still tired, either.

Those are interesting tips. Tbh I have never had a problem with sleep if I follow the standard advice, in no particular order:

• Exercise or walk for an hour during the day

• Turn of electronics an hour before bed and do something calm, e.g. read a book (often not necessary, but if you want surefire)

• Have a consistent sleep schedule - wake up at same time at least 6 days a week

• Complete dark - blackout curtains or t-shirt over face

• Complete quite - ear plugs. A lot of people complain about them, but they work great if you just can't sleep.

• Don't move - usually best if you sleep on back

• Most "techniques - counting breath, repeating a phrase, etc don't work, just don't think about anything important

• On the note of my (somewhat sarcastic) point about energy drinks - don't have those or any coffee/sugar at least 16 hours before you sleep

As long and convoluted as that list seems, to me it's just essential to reliably sleep every time. I use it and it works.

Yeah, I'm really bad at most of these, haha. For example, I absolutely love to be woken up by the sun (heyo, SoCal!) so blackout curtains are a non-starter for everyday use.

How much money do you have saved up ?

Do you have a family ?

Let's assume your answers are a lot and no.

Just stop. I quit a horrible job in my youth without knowing if I'd make rent next month.

It was worth it,but only because I didn't have any dependents. With a family this is insanely reckless.

> With a family this is insanely reckless.

This is why fewer of us are having families. There's something in the back of our minds telling us that we're not safe.

I just posted this on another thread, but I think it might help you here too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30000296

This is a good blog on the subject by a friend of mine: https://ravik.substack.com/p/focus-flow-and-burnout

The burnout game is hard, you absolutely should tell your work about it. If they can't support you, you then need to decide what works best for you. But remember, you can always make money - health is fleeting.

Just my .02, but I would take a break from the industry, possibly from any kind of desk job. If you have savings at all you should do ok with a little income restocking shelves or whatever.

I don't have advice, but congrats on the post ID.

Should probably listen to the aforementioned healthcare professionals instead of the contradictory advice you're getting here though.

I get lots of dandruff when i am stressed continuously for a few days? This has been a great indicator. Does any one know of any study or feel the same?

Out of curiosity what are the symptoms of severe occupational burnout? How would you differentiate it from something like depression?

burnout can lead to depression and vice versa. Honestly the treatment for both burnout and non-chemical depression is the same: eat healthy, exercise moderately, sleep enough, minimize stress, try to find hobbies you enjoy, and take time off if you feel you need it (with burnout the answer is always yes, but taking time off can help improve depression too)

From the ICD: "Burnout is a syndrome conceptualized as resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed. It is characterised by three dimensions: 1) feelings of energy depletion or exhaustion; 2) increased mental distance from one’s job, or feelings of negativism or cynicism related to one's job; and 3) a sense of ineffectiveness and lack of accomplishment. Burn-out refers specifically to phenomena in the occupational context and should not be applied to describe experiences in other areas of life."

https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/e...

For comparison depression is "depressed mood or diminished interest in activities occurring most of the day, nearly every day during a period lasting at least two weeks accompanied by other symptoms such as difficulty concentrating, feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt, hopelessness, recurrent thoughts of death or suicide, changes in appetite or sleep, psychomotor agitation or retardation, and reduced energy or fatigue."

https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http%3a%2f%2fid.who.int...

> 1) feelings of energy depletion or exhaustion; 2) increased mental distance from one’s job, or feelings of negativism or cynicism related to one's job; and 3) a sense of ineffectiveness and lack of accomplishment.

That's a description of most of my career. However, as long as they keep paying me well, it doesn't matter that much if I'm burned out or not - the money keeps coming in either way, and stash grows every month. I've never been fired either, so it looks like my performance while burned out is still enough to meet expectations.

Wish you all the best, hope and sure others with knowledge and advice can help you. Your for sure not alone.

> Should I take time off?

And go where, do what, in the middle of this fucking pandemic paranoia?

Work is your best bet, if you have it.

See a psychologist and/or psychiatrist, seriously.

You're dealing with your mental health here, don't rely on posts on the internet to handle a serious health problem. Burn out can easily spiral into something like clinical depression or anxiety disorders, and then you'll be dealing with the burden of burn out and additional health problems.

What about the post made you think they aren't seeking professional help?

They're asking for advice and I'm giving it. They didn't mention getting professional help, so I did.

Change your diet, change your life.

Do you take a reputable multi-vitamin?

Do you drink enough water?

You can't build without raw materials.

I've been dealing with this some myself. It really sucks. I felt so guilty because in the grand scheme of things, I'm doing great, but at work, I couldn't bring myself to do the most trivial things I'd done countless times. Thankfully, I came across this article which has been helpful in setting me on the right track. https://apple.news/AIRTKZkBFQBmDhsIAImifTw

TL;DR - Occupational Burnout is a result of the body's inability to respond to cortisol (stress hormone) in the work environment. Sleep, vacationing & working out are a prerequisite, but insufficient to correct. The article instead recommends that people should address major contributing factors that show up most commonly:

1. workload

2. autonomy

3. fairness

4. reward: comp + recognition

5. workplace community

6. purpose: values + meaning

^ In my case, I took a hard look at each one and have been making sure I focus on addressing those that seem to be most demotivating to me. Creating a physical work environment and reading about the behavioral science of habbit forming has also been great support.

Best of luck in getting through it. You're not alone!

I'd like to give you some advice based on my own experience, and without making too many assumptions about you and what you haven't told us about your situation.

I absolutely believe there is a way for you to get through this. Don't be discouraged!

The first thing you must do is to kill the negative thought train. Don't panic, don't assume your career is over, that you have no hope, that it's going to get worse, that people are going to find out, that you'll get fired, etc.. Whatever you're fearful about as a result of realizing you're burnt out, try to set it aside for now because you don't need any more stress or worry. It sounds like you have time to think about what to do, so take that time, and don't put yourself under any pressure. Accept the state you're in. It's ok. This happens to many, many people, and you're not the only one. Moreover, your world doesn't sound like it's about to end. Relax about it, as much as you can.

I would echo what some others have said here about telling your boss/team: don't. What I think you need to do is look at what your day-to-day job is like, and see if there's anything you want to change. Is there anything that's really dragging you down? Do certain tasks or projects drive you crazy or make you feel depressed? Are you unhappy with your role in general? Do you hate your office and need to move? Is WFH making you unhappy, and you need to be back in a real office? Try to ponder it all, see if there's something you could change that would give you some quality of life improvement. When you think you have something, take that to your boss, and see what they can do about it. Don't engage in self-enfeeblement when you have that talk. You're entitled to set boundaries for yourself and ask for a change without having to divulge anything about your personal state of mind. Just say plainly that you're not feeling happy in your current role, and you'd like to give something else a try (i.e., whatever alternative you're going to present). Ask if that's possible now or at some point soon. If not, ask if there's something else available right now that they could offer you because you feel like you really need a change. Consider the options, but only choose one if it appeals to you, not just because you think need to choose one.

If it's a hard no from the boss or if there are no good options, then ok, no problem. Consider your next options. A job is a job. If things aren't so bad where you're at, then maybe it's worth staying. Ask yourself if perhaps you are too emotionally invested in having a "great career". If so, work on detaching emotionally. Show up each day when you have to, and leave when you can. It's ok to do a good job, and do it for the pay check. You don't have to accomplish anything great. You don't have to break your back for your employer. If you stay where you're at, look at ways that you can change little things to give yourself some feeling of agency and autonomy. For me, I had schedule flexibility, so I engaged in a daily act of rebellion where I would sleep in, show up in time for the daily stand-up, then do what I could until I felt like I was done for the day, and then I went home. If you don't want to stay where you're at, then take time to think about what you want to do next.

I can recommend seeking professional help. A good therapist is a very valuable disinterested third-party who can help you think everything through. Unless your situation is in dire straits, the best way forward is to make small but well-considered steps that will help create emotional and psychological space for yourself to heal. Oftentimes, what we think is the one problem causing us to burn out isn't actually the only problem contributing to the situation. A therapist can give you perspective on that. Perhaps anti-depressants might be a help for you, but a therapist can help you figure that out too. Don't sign up for the drugs straight away unless it is clearly needed.

I can also recommend walking, every day if you can, for as long as you're able or it remains enjoyable for you. Wooded areas and around lakes are great to walk around, but anywhere will do. It will help you relax and mull things over. It really will. Listen to music if you like, but also try it without. Stop and sit along the way. Take in the sky, the birds, the trees, the landscape. Just enjoy being there, and the beauty of nature. Think about whatever's on your mind, but don't force yourself to think of a solution. Let your mind wander. Space out. Relax.

Over time, you will be able to figure out what you need to change. It took me a couple of years, to be honest, but that's fine. It's not a race. The building (i.e., my life) wasn't burning, so I just focussed on taking my time because I didn't want to change too much too soon and end up back in the same hole down at some point down the road. I took care to sleep well (but not too much), walk regularly, and try do things I enjoyed (or used to enjoy). No pressure. If I didn't feel like doing anything intellectual on a particular day, I didn't. I got a lot of mileage out of housework, cooking, and walking on those days.

I believe you can figure this out. Hang in there, my friend!

Rest and vest

Well, here goes a brief version of my story for giving some background and some advice:

I’ve been a Devops engineer for almost 7 years now. I genuinely love my profession and I am very passionate for what I do.

The burn out came a couple of years ago: I worked in a project with tons of technical debt. The company had a plan of moving the project into a different cloud. Their plan was “lift and shift” but I insisted on the fact that this was a perfect opportunity for doing things well. I presented my plan and they allowed me so I commited to refactor it from top to bottom. I worked for many more hours than agreed by contract and even weekends. Those months feelt like one giant day of work. I did all that not because I wanted to gain more money or respect. I did it because I take the “doing things right if I have the knowledge” as some kind of moral obligation.

It was a huge success. Everyone in the team and in the company was impressed and happy with the results and they saw the benefit. But, despite all the good outcome, I started to feel that something was not right on me. I felt intellectually and even physically exhausted. My mind was cloudy all the time. I started to have insomnia. I struggled to focus and I developed a very low tolerance to stress reacting to it with anxiety and frustration. I lost my good memorisation capacity. I went down into a hole where everything in my life started to be blurry: my technical knowledge, my personal decisions, my plans for the future etc. I felt insecure. I hated myself for not being able to cope with stuff anymore and I hid it for not looking “weak” in front of coworkers, family and friends.

My advice from the lessons learned is:

1 - Communicate your status to your superiors (and she/he will give you advice on how to comunicate it to your team), family and friends. Be open, realistic and clear. What you are feeling is normal so there’s no reason for dramas from anybody.

2 - Be honest with yourself.

3 - Have mercy for yourself.

4 - Accept your limitations. This doesn’t mean you accept you’re weak. This means you are potentially taking the first step to develop a strategy to overcome those limitations.

5 - Break the pattern by moving to a different project/department or even move into a different company.

6 - Take at least a minimum of one month of time off and allow yourself to be plain lazy. Forget about your company and duties during that time off. Enjoy yourself even if that implies to be for 5 hours in a row watching garbage on Netflix eating buckets of popcorn.

7 - Find a hobby: I’ve done from lockpicking, to learn an instrument, to electronics (arduino stuff), to videogames, sport, yoga, reading novels etc. Is gonna be good in the middle/long run not only for resting your mind but also for improving as a computer engineer even if the hobby is not directly related.

And that’s it. I hope you find it useful.

I’ll preface this by saying I have a lot of thoughts about the social and organizational causes of burnout — collapsed labor protections, zero boundaries between personal and professional life, and (gestures wildly at the pandemic) basically everything around us at the moment. I believe we’ve built a culture of work where the default setting is to push people until they fail, and then treat that failure as aberrant and place the fault on the person. So I think organizations should be responsible for preventing and addressing employee burnout, but alas, you’ll need to manage individual recovery so I’ll try to stick to the actionable bits of the questions you asked.

When I burned out, I read quite a bit on burnout research and a very interesting finding is the conclusion that burnout it isn’t necessarily a result of overwork. It can be, sure. But more often it’s the result of a mismatch between effort and reward, or misalignment in the value or meaning of your work.

Christina Maslach, a seminal researcher, co-developed a detailed survey known as the Maslach Burnout Inventory to measure burnout. Her theory is that any one of the following six problems can empty us: working too much; working in an unjust environment; working with little social support; working with little agency or control; working in the service of values different than our own; working for insufficient reward (whether the currency is money, prestige, or positive feedback).

I suggest googling and taking the Maslach Burnout Inventory to get a sense of which of these 6 areas is most affecting your sense of burnout to help guide you on what you should do next.

> Should I take time off? Should I tell my boss and/or team

I believe these questions are directed at what actions you can take to address the burnout in your current work environment.

Burnout can present as any combination of three distinct symptoms: exhaustion (a depletion of mental or physical resources), cynical detachment (a depletion of social connectedness), and a reduced sense of efficacy (a depletion of value for oneself).

The specific actions you should take depends on which combination of symptoms you have, but researchers generally think agency is the most restorative path to heal burnout. There are a lot of suggestions in this thread toward the self-care path and while self-care is important, it may not be as healing to the root cause of burnout if it doesn’t help you feel like you are in control of your work life. If I can throw in my two cents, I’d recommend activities that help you feel empowered and in control. That’s not terribly actionable advice as-is, but hopefully helps direct your effort: what can you do to feel more in control of your work? This might mean staying where you are, but it might be finding a different work place that’s better suited to your needs.

> Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out?

By and large- no. Healthcare, social services, and non-profit work have higher burnout rates than tech. But research suggests there are certain profiles of people who experience burnout more acutely and these traits may appear more often in tech: young, single, childless people. It may seem counter-intuitive but older workers have more perspective and experience than young idealists who run into a wall when high expectations don’t match reality, and married people and parents don’t depend on their jobs as highly for fulfillment.

Something you said stood out to me: “I don't have many hobbies (if any) and in the middle of the pandemic there isn't much to do anyway”- do you have activities or things in your life that bring fulfillment? If not, this could be contributing to your burnout (if your job is your only source of fulfillment).

Good luck in your reflections and journey.

I am just another muppet on the net, who I am to give you advice? But let me tell you my story instead, maybe there is something for you in it:

I burnt out many years ago, kept ignoring it, went deeper down the rabbit hole and ended up with a major depressive disorder and a serious general axiety disorder. At one point before I went for professional help - too late ofc - when I was close to jump from the next bridge at any moment. It was 50/50 at that time that I would not survive, I was done for good. It took 10+ years of self-exploitation to bring me to this point. I never fully recovered, required serious medication just being able to do the simplest things for a couple of years. Being burnt-out is like being an ex-alcoholic, the wrong work environment and I am back on the self-exploitation wagon. It's not about stress or problems, it's about the self-exploitation. You are doing this to yourself, though the environment you work at may foster that tendency (often intentionally).

I was a rock star at work, invincible, the world was mine until there was nothing left inside me. I gave it all, never kept anything for the way back. I squeezed out more and more without noticing what I am doing to myself metally and physically as long term consequences. It never occured to me that things required more and more from me, even things I did with ease years before. And man, did I party hard, first on weekends only, later on weekdays as well. And serious spending sprees, worse than ever before. I just didn't care anymore. Just to ease the pain inside me that was eating me up. This went on for another year or so until I was done for good, Finished, down for the count in my 30s. I went for help one day, when I sat in tears at home while watching the documentary "The Bridge" on YT. I was the person with the long black hair that is about to jump. That was me, I felt it. I was already mentally there. It's me. I cried. But I had some fight left in me, something just didn't want to give up. Never understood what is was, it made no sense. It wasn't survival instinct. Maybe it was the rock star, that still had one last riff in him.

I wasn't able to work for years, just some pet projects of mine, just for me, silly things, but I could do them at least. Though there were weeks and months I barely could do anything. Even taking a shower took all energy I had left, often I didn't even manage that. During that time all my savings were eaten up, and I landed on wellfare for an extended period of time. My health went to shit as well. But everything was better than going back to the same kind of environment that made me sick in the end, or to phrase it better where I would exploit myself again.

Couple of years passed, I felt stable enough again. I noticed that I started to browse more often for jobs. Not sure what I wanted too do. But I fell into a trap: I looked at money, because I knew I deserved it. I turned down offers after a full interview cycle in the last second, just didn't sign. Jobs others would kill for. Why? I was afraid of falling back into old behaviour. But the banks wanted me, they wanted me so hard, that is were I belong - I thought - the big bonus checks I always strifed for, the acknowledgement I never got at home. But I couldn't get myself to sign. I was afraid. But it felt good to know that the the ones who once turned me down desired me. Saying no, gave me some unknown streangth I hadn't felt in years.

Had a lot of interviews as I grow stronger again. Many rejections, many bad interviews. Either they did not want me, or I didn't want to work there. I took jobs at two startups, thought their ways may help, each a year part, and got fired after a few weeks on each for cause. Yeah, deserved it - I just couldn't deliver anymore, I was not ready, even though the demands were low for someone of my skill. I thought my talent was gone for good, that I lost the magic touch.

Then the right job came along at the right company in an environment I felt safe in. I knew it right away during the screening call. It was clear, that environment cannot harm me. Didn't even had too jump through hoops, it was probably love at first sight; The environment there was for sure toxic by objective standards, but in a different way, a way that could not harm me, that could not not push me over the edge to exploit myself again.

And now the kicker: it was FAANG...

Probalby the one with most toxic, fear ridden environment of all, if you believe stories on the net. But for me it was different. I was very relaxed, sometimes did more hours, somtimes less. Some days I had no productive output, some days I had a lot of energy. But I was able to deliver, the little engine that could, the rock star slowly came back. For me, it might have been the near absence of bureacracy and admistrative overhead. I was given, a lot of freedom, but sure I had to deliver in return. Sometimes there was a lot of stress, sometimes things just sucked, but all in all I never felt pressured to perform in that pressure cooker, I just did and it felt natural.

I saw peers running after the big pay checks, mentally jacking of to the stock value rising. I just didn't care, I was more than decently compensated, probably less than others at my experience level. But I just didn't care, didn't even negotiate or cared what they will offer me initially. When the offer came I just signed, didn't even look at compensation plan details. I was also not that attacjed to physical things and possessions anymore compared to how it has been before, though I could afford a lot. I was also not obsessed with building wealth, sure I build some again. But it could go boom tommorrow and I would have shrug it off. I had a more than decent paycheck, what do I need more?

Maybe that is the result of hitting rock bottom. Who knows? But be aware, rock bottom has a basement, I've seen it...

Right before the pandemic I left FAANG, but only because I wanted to leave the US behind. The America I immigrated once to and that I loved with all its flaws was just not at home anymore. It feelt like place that got stranger to me every day, though I spent most all of my life there. But I felt it was time to go. My FAANG also changed, bot good or better I don't know. But it wasn't my FAANG anymore. The one lesson I learnt during my dark times: There is no lock on the cage! FAANG tried to keep me, said I could work from one of the branches in other countries, even making me really obscene compensation offering that for sure I was not worth. Thank you, but no thanks, I need to go.

There is no lock on the cage!

Now have a job that pays terrible for my skill level, but the fun thing is, I am as stable as I never have been before. I would say I am even on the edge of being happy again 10 years after I completly broke down, though my health lies in shambles, but I just do not care. Just one day after another, enjoying the little things. On occiasions though I notice that I start to exploit myself again. Nah, not gonna happen for sure...

Now that I think of it, I guess I am happy now...

I don't feel comfortable saying what "you" should do since these situations are so personal/unique, but here's some of what helped me:

Was there any specific event at work which you think may have contributed to feeling burned out? Or more of a long slow grind of unfulfilling work? AFAICT good therapy is supposed to lead one to self-realization of these triggers, but for me it always felt like it was doing the opposite. Luck of the draw I guess, but I tried three different times with different therapists over several years and it always just made me feel worse and less understood than when I walked in.

The biggest thing that made me feel better was developing goals and an identity outside of the economic system to avoid the effects of work negativity. For me there was a huge project I delivered on at work that flew totally under the radar and was not rewarded. Of course there was more I could have done to promote myself blah blah blah, but getting the worst performance review in years for the work I was proudest of in years was a huge trigger for me.

IMO (don't feel obligated to agree!) anything money touches will feel at least a little inhuman, and it can only get worse once it takes root (like the current direction of "open source" where lots of people treat it like a way to pivot into a corporate job (I did this too lol)). I can't tell anyone what their beliefs and goals should be, and I'm not going to share mine since they are personal and not really relevant, but give them space and time and they will come. It doesn't even need to include technology. That's what I'm good at, so that's the expression I tend to gravitate toward, but the important part for me was to decouple my self-worth from my income. I can handle soul-crushing corporate work a lot better now that I've stopped taking it so seriously. My self-worth comes from ideas that cost zero dollars, and selling my labor is a resource to accomplish things that truly make me happy.

To figure all that out, I took a year off of work at a pretty significant hit to my finances and just went places. It was necessary for me to get out of any familiar environments, including home, just to sever those negative mental links and get some untainted thoughts going. I had never taken more than a couple of weeks off at a time since becoming a working adult, so there was never a time where I was simultaneously old enough to have some experience with the world, old enough to have some money, but not be thinking about what I "needed to do" when I got back.

Have a car. Ignore all the "DAE cars bad???" people — the most interesting places are places transit will never go. My Prius does back roads and gets 60MPG doing it, so it doesn't even have to break the bank. Pick a direction and drive in it for as far as you can stand in a single day. Get a motel room and spend a couple days just "living" in the area. It doesn't have to be touristy stuff. I get the most enjoyment out of things like just driving around, sitting in a park or on a beach, or taking a walk, since the point is to have a clean mental canvas. Unstructured activities are better for this than activities where I have to be in a certain place at a certain time and pay attention to a thing.

Be offline while traveling, and I mean zero contact. Airplane mode, and stash the phone somewhere. All attention parasites must go. I set up Musicolet on my old Note 4 with an SD card full of MP3s so I don't need connectivity for music. OSMAnd provides offline maps, and Torque logs my trip via OBD2. I carry a mirrorless camera (Micro Four Thirds) for photos, and it's way better than anything my phone takes anyway.

Regaining a happy relationship with computers/technology was possible too once I had some time away from them. Things that help me include having a language/ecosystem for personal stuff that I absolutely refuse to ever touch professionally (Ruby for me) and having projects that are intentionally "Free Software, but not open source". Patches are not welcome. My code isn't just "mine" — my code is me!

I went through a similar situation about a year ago. Was burned out at work and my workplace had gotten increasingly toxic in our post-IPO world. I went on medical leave and short-term disability for 3-4 months, and used that time to work on feeling normal again, and on looking for a different job.

If I were you, I would...

1) continue meeting with a doctor regularly to discuss treatment options. That could be short-term benzo use, antidepressants, lifestyle changes, as well as going on medical leave. Regular visits also help build up your rapport with your doctor and create a record that you've been seeking help for these issues. Those can be really helpful in the future. For reference, I was seeing my doctor weekly when going through my situation.

2) don't tell anybody at your work that you're experience burnout until you absolutely have to. And even then, limit it to those that need to know (which, likely, is HR and not your manager or coworkers). I've seen a lot of friends be passed over for promotions or interesting projects or even let go after disclosing mental health issues, even for things as prevalent as burnout. Figure out a plan with your doctor first, and then follow your doctor's suggestions on who to contact at work.

3) seriously consider time off, either through a week of PTO or through a more extended medical leave. Yes, it's a pandemic, and yes, you may not have any idea what you do. But, honestly, that's exactly why you need time off. You'll get bored and figure out what you like to do, and that'll open some probably-currently-blocked mental doors on things that might improve your life. For me, I went on a road trip through the southern US and visited national parks I had never been to before. All outdoors, nobody around, never went to restaurants, and brought an air purifier for my hotel room or airbnb. I've also started booking week-long stays at neat AirBnBs with no plans whatsoever... just read, hike around, journal. And even though it feels boring, it's incredibly reinvigorating. But when we're burned out, we forget the things that we love because we're so burdened by our jobs.

4) seriously consider a new job. Another cause of burnout is breakdown in the feedback loop of our work. So we put tons of effort into something, only to shift priorities and not finish a project... or only to have the project handed off to some other team for nebulous reasons... or only to have execs abruptly nix the project... etc. If that resonates, then maybe part of the issue is you're not getting what you need from your job, and it's time to look for something else.

5) double down on self-care. You probably have heard all of the things before: have a consistent sleep schedule, remove screens from your bedroom, go outside, exercise every day, cut down on sugar/alcohol/caffeine, have regular social contact (safely, but FaceTime, etc), reduce your social media usage, meditate, journal, etc. Cultivate hobbies -- what about learning a new language, or learning the guitar, or starting a garden, or learning 5 new gourmet meals to cook.

These issues are really common in tech, and right now life is particularly hard. There's a lot of instability in the world, there's not a lot of things to do with free time, and so we work too hard with nothing to look forward to. It all sucks. But it's great that you've recognized you're not in a great place, as that's the most important first step :)

I quit my job October because I was too burnt out to keep going (and because I got a 3% raise in a year of 7% inflation right after I released a product that would save the company millions a month, but I digress).

My best advice is, if you can afford it, quit your job and don't do anything until it sounds good. Like literally sit and stare at a wall until something sounds fun. My recovery was definitely delayed because I thought doing hobbies was how I was going to recover, so I forced myself to try to do things because I though I'd want to have accomplished them after my sabbatical was done.

If you want to call it mediation, call it that. If you want to call it sitting in the shower with a beer call it that. If you want to call it renting a cabin on a mountain to with no internet, call it that. The important thing is you're giving your mind time to (if you will) run a defrag on itself.

I'm still not 100% over being burnt out, so I can't give any guarantee, but giving myself that time has definitely helped immensely.

> Should I tell my boss and/or team? Should I tell them right away, or wait until I know what other steps I want to take? What should I expect their reactions to be?

Hard to say. How's your relationship with your boss/team? If quitting is the most likely outcome, you have nothing to lose, and maybe they can help. If your work reletionships are more adversarial, maybe not.

In my opinion, yes.

I don't know you or your personality, but for me not handling boredom well was a symptom of being burnt out. Or as I said it, I was "bad at" relaxing. I still am, but I'm getting better about it. And the thing that is helping the most with that is telling myself that I'm allowed to be bored and then scheduling some time to be bored. That might sound stupid, but I really think that is the thing that has helped my mental health recently more than anything else.

> If I continue working, is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Think of senior engineer in a typical DevOps-y SaaS startup.

Can you work less? I've actually started a new gig (2 months after my last day as the last one), but I'm working part time (though salaried w/ benefits) and it's great having more time in the mornings and afternoons. I don't think I could swing a full time gig at the moment, but working half-time has silenced the part of my brain that kept telling me I should be making money and being a contributing member of society.

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