Israel Becomes CERN Associate Member | Hacker News Reader

Israel Becomes CERN Associate Member

globes.co.il

60 pointswslh25 comments

There are some interesting politics lurking in the background of this, around what Europe is (ignoring the more specific politics of Israel itself). Until this decision, the two pending applications for membership from outside geographical Europe, Israel's and Turkey's, had been stalled for quite a while. Now that Israel is in, there is a question of, what about Turkey? But that one is tied up in EU expansion politics; Turkey is also an EU membership candidate, and anti-Turkish-membership politicians don't want it admitted to other European organizations like CERN, for fear of strengthening the Turkey-is-European view.

There is also a longer-term question of what CERN (or perhaps other "European" institutions) should cover geographically. Why are they "European", and what does that mean? Could Egypt join, for example? One might say it's less "culturally European" than Israel, but its scientific community is quite western-oriented, and it already participates in some CERN projects on a case-by-case basis.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I'd just like to add, for the benefit of those who don't know, that Israel already takes part in many other European things, like sports (Euro Cup) and the European Song Contest (Eurovision).

They were accepted by European sport federations a long time ago, usually because Middle-Eastern federations refused to accept them either on ideological or security reasons. It's usually not a big deal, they're crap at everything except basketball, as far as I know.

Except for Hapoel Tel Aviv, which is my team! So treat with respect! :)

Seriously though, of the "Major Sports", Israel is only good at basketball with Macabi Tel Aviv. But there are other niche sports we're ok at, like Judo or others.

Krav Maga just to add one that is getting famous in some european countries. :)

The Eurovision Song Contest is held by the European Broadcasting Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Broadcasting_Union) which includes several Middle Eastern and North African countries, not only Israel.

Both examples apply to Turkey also, sports and Eurovision. The problem is when we talk about EU membership. Turkey has some countries which are usually against them entering.

Part of Turkey is in "geographical Europe" - including Istanbul (or at least parts of the city).

The problem is not so much geographical as it is economical (eastern European countries like Moldova, Kosovo, Albania or Bosnia are all 100% in Europe but will likely not enter the EU any time soon).

What does the EU have to do with this? EU is not the same as Europe.

Croatia.

The OP mentioned EU candidateship of Turkey.

I was pointing out that all of these issues are not really about whether or not Turkey is geographically located in Europe, but about it not being a wealthy country.

Just like EU membership, as well as other institutes, do not include Moldova (and other poor countries) even tho it is entirely within the continent of Europe.

Turkey's per capita GDP is higher than some EU member states like Romania and Bulgaria, though clearly lower than EU average:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=turkey%2C+bulgaria%2C+r...

The issues with Turkey's membership appear more be about religious/cultural and the concern over lack of political freedoms in the country.

Of course, European civilization once extended across Asia Minor all the way to Persia. The invasion of the Turkmen and other central Asian nomadic tribes changed that.

Hold your horses and check your facts. CERN membership takes 5 years from becoming a candidate until acceptance. Israel was accepted as a Candidate for becoming a CERN member, same as Romania was in 2010, they are not members. Turkey is already in Talks for becoming a CERN membership candidate, they just started it later than Romania and Israel so they'll become a Candidate later: http://www.todayszaman.com/news-229986-turkey-accepted-as-ca... .

CERN is no longer a European Organisation. Actually, it never really was ("who ordered that?" for those who know CERN history). Since nothing really new has emerged in HEP in the last few decades, CERN is trying to grow into an international lab, as opposed to European, mostly for scaling/funding purposes (USA, Japan, Russia, China have actually built most of LHC: Russian in kinds (steel, calos, beryllium etc.), Japanese semi (HAMA PMT, trackers etc), USA hw/sw (intel, Oracle, RedHat, DDN, Force10, DLT, FPGA) and Chinese assembly (any SKU built over 50 pcs-s)).

And since theoretical and applied physics needs ever more PR to get attention, they are also trying to dress up as a technology provider hub, forgetting to mention, that most of what is there is COTS. The ("management") problem is not unlike the one that "killed" NASA (which it was modelled upon in terms of matrix management).

"How should we make it attractive for them [young people] to spend 5,6,7 years in our field, be satisfied, learn about excitement, but finally be qualified to find other possibilities?" -- H. Schopper

What an euphemism. Almost like a scam.

btw: .il was already quite present on every level, obviously, so this is just a formality -- Turkey is somewhat different in this respect.

This disappoints me. CERN is one of the most important representatives of the European scientific community. Instead of boycotting the apartheid state which openly practices racial cleansing on a daily basis, CERN embraces it. A truly sad world we live in today if that's what our brightest minds consent.

Something tells me this won't go well on this forum, but I had to say it.

I don't think the PA is trying to join CERN, they're trying to join the UN. Silly!

I think you've got the illegally occupying force and residents of occupied territory confused.

Yeah. It kinda sucks when you start a war with somebody with the intent of slaughtering every man, woman, and child and then those guys turn around, kick your ass, and take your land. Life is a bitch that way.

Start a war?! I think you've got your history mixed up. Palestine was colonized by the British Empire and then given away to the Zionists. Since then Palestinians have had their homes and land brutally confiscated for the incoming Israeli settlers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

Are you talking about this war? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

You're confused about who started it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Focus

Here's some more fun reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

A Frenchman, a Russian, and an Israeli were taken captive by a group of terrorists. Before being executed, they were given one last wish. The Frenchman wanted a bottle of wine. The Russian asked for a bottle of Vodka. The Israeli asked that his hands be untied and that he be given a good kick in the behind.

All three wishes were granted. The Frenchman drank the wine, the Russian enjoyed his vodka and the Israeli had his hands untied and was given a good kick. As soon as the Israeli recovered, he grabbed a pistol from one of the terrorists and began shooting. He killed a few of the terrorists and the rest ran for their lives.

"That was great," said the Frenchman. "You saved our lives," exclaimed the Russian. "But we don't understand, why did you ask for the kick?

"I was afraid that if I wasn't kicked first, you would have called ME the aggressor," replied the Israeli.

No, what would be sad would be letting politics impede scientific cooperation and progress.

South Africa never got past its apartheid stage until a global boycotting movement forced it to. This isn't just a matter of "politics". This is everyone's responsibility, including scientists.

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