Comment by sfifs | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sfifs | Hacker News Reader

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Actually what's needed was outlined very nicely in Starship Troopers by Heinlein many decades ago. We're not there yet of course but with faster and faster edge compute, it will get there.

> Jump really hard and the suit’s jets cut in, amplifying what the suit’s leg “muscles” did, giving you a three-jet shove, the axis of pressure of which passes through your center of mass. So you jump over that house next door. Which makes you come down as fast as you went up . . . which the suit notes through your proximity & closing gear (a sort of simple-minded radar resembling a proximity fuse) and therefore cuts in the jets again just the right amount to cushion your landing without your having to think about it. And that is the beauty of a powered suit: you don’t have to think about it. You don’t have to drive it, fly it, conn it, operate it; you just wear it and it takes orders directly from your muscles and does for you what your muscles are trying to do. This leaves you with your whole mind free to handle your weapons and notice what is going on around you . . . which is supremely important to an infantryman who wants to die in bed. If you load a mud foot down with a lot of gadgets that he has to watch, somebody a lot more simply equipped—say with a stone ax—will sneak up and bash his head in while he is trying to read a vernier.

Now you're making me want read the book!

The book is good, but there's a certain amount of black comedy when you look at the context of how it was written and how, among other things, the military strategies it argues for (de facto universal conscription, terrorizing enemy civilians into submission, using shock-and-awe campaigns and targeted strikes instead of needing to occupy territory in depth, etc) have been repeatedly discredited since its release, and even at the time of release had obvious failures in the Korean War just a few years before.

It can still be a good book with terrible politics. If you need a palate cleanser when finished, The Forever War by Haldeman is a direct rebuttal..

I'd argue that if you need a palate cleanser after reading Starship Troopers, go watch the Paul Verhoeven film Starship Troopers which is "surely you can't be serious about this!" take on Heinlein's book.

Although, ironically, he removed the powered-mech suits.

Recommendations: If you want modern powered-mech suits military action, read The Red Trilogy. If you want a cracking sci-fi novel from the same era but very different politics, “Rebel in Time” is a corker.

Nobody should take Heinlein's narrators words for granted. He is deservedly famous for being very diverse in presenting the viewpoints of his characters - coming from very different societies.

Can you give us an example of one of Heinlein's books with an apparent narrative that is very opposed to Starship Troopers?

I ask because when I read it (way back when), I definitely got the impression this was Heinlein speaking in his own voice / his own opinions.

> I definitely got the impression this was Heinlein speaking in his own voice / his own opinions.

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Read another book, and he'll be speaking his own voice/opinions, to, but they'll be very different.

On books, Heinlein's must read, in my opinion, is "The Moon is the harsh mistress", "Stranger in a strange land" and "Starship troopers", all three being very different. But the one book I would recommend reading first is his lesser known novel, "The door into summer". It is not groundbreaking, but very warm and charming.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is probably his novel with the most explicit anti-colonial and anti-fascist themes

Nearly every other one?

I'd recommend The Moon is a Harsh Mistress which is a romp imho, and also happens to be a better insight into his personal politics.

Also, Have Spacesuit Will Travel, Farmer in the Sky, Stranger in a Strange Land and mostly everything by Heinlein, though there was arguably a bit of a drop in quality towards the late end of his career.

I like to think of it as 'early' Heinlein and 'late' Heinlein - although both periods are very enjoyable, sometimes it as if it's two different authors.

Yeah, people who read Heinlein and try to sort him into some political camp or other usually latch in to some surface level aspect they think make him side with their opposition. But in doing so must ignore huge conflicts the ideas presented would have with their opposition, even more so, when the books contradict each other. Heinelein writes the public motivations for the people of the societies he presents, and while overly verbose at times, I find it facinating, culture is a crucial aspect of society, and scifi without it often becomes dull.

The moon is a harsh mistress is as much a book about strong friendly AI, as one about alternative ways society could be structured to provide continuity and safety if governments fail to provide. The AI aspect is facinating and much deeper than it seems at first. But if you look closely, there are hints all throughout its quite clever, it just does not care about what its doing, it cares about its friend. It reminds me of the treehouse my neighbours kids once made. The kids tried to make it out of ductape, sticks and plank, and their dad helped them, but also snuck out and nailed a few things and support blocks to make it work.

Also, his politics changed drastically over the course of his life, going from a New Deal Democrat to a Goldwater Republican.

Universial conscription? No, it's entirely volontary in the book. Completed service is a requirement for full citizenship though. But having done military service is quite rare in the book from what I understand.

Not being considered a citizen is a very clear deterrent to avoiding the "voluntary" conscription.

A "separate but equal" civil organization does not mean that there is true equality. Even less so when they do not even pretend to be equal.

A word of caution: start on an evening where you don’t have to work the next day. You’re going to end up reading the whole thing in one sitting.

The entire book is like an extended version of the quote above.

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