Magic Mouse 2 – A Terrible Design (2017) | Hacker News Reader

Magic Mouse 2 – A Terrible Design (2017)

fyngyrz.com

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I assumed they put the port on the bottom quite intentionally to prevent you from using the mouse with a cord/tail, you know, like it'd be gauche to go to a nice steakhouse and order a well done steak and request high-fructose corn syrup sauce to slather across it. Seems in character for Apple.

And yet they let you use the Magic Trackpad and keyboard while plugged in just fine. IIRC they even run wired if plugged in too. I think they just wanted to recycle the chassis of the original Magic Mouse to save on tooling and parts but that design doesn't allow for a plug in the front so they came up with this turd of a design.

That seems like the most likely explanation.

Running wired is an important feature, if you need to connect them to a mac mini.

I think it's because it was the easiest way for them to add a charging port with very little redesign of the mouse. They could reuse the top part and not need to modify the profile. They saved a ton of money on retooling the production line, and all it costs is the clunky charging situation (and also the public ridicule). Who know, they might have had a warehouse of magic mouse 1 parts that they refused for ver 2.

I also think this but as a counterpoint, I use Logitech MX Master 2. It has a micro-usb port for charging, but only connects wirelessly. I think this is a necessary decision, because the only way this could work well with both a wired and wireless mode is turning off the wireless part when plugged in. But to the OS this would be a different mouse, with potentially different settings, causing confusion for users.

Amusingly, you can find many forum posts online, where users complain that this mouse "isn't working even when plugged in", with replies of "mine works when plugged in" (unknowingly using wireless).

It's 100% doable. My Logitech G903 works when plugged in only by the micro-USB cable and the dongle unplugged (It doesn't have Bluetooth). All the settings are stored on the mouse too which is great because it's 100% OS agnostic. The Apple Magic Trackpad 2 also works both wired and wireless.

It has a dongle. I quickly checked and I think there are no Logitech mouses that support wired and Bluetooth. I wonder what the reasoning is.

There's other devices that work fine wired or over Bluetooth or a dongle like the Xbox One S controllers. Maybe Logitech thinks it would be too confusing as the mice they make that support dongles and Bluetooth also support multiple connections so throwing wired in there might be too much. Who knows.

I feel like Apple mice have always been terrible and this was just the latest manifestation of an Apple tradition as old as time. Anyone remember the hockey puck?

I distinctly remember back in college, every computer in the Mac computer lab was connected to a Microsoft optical mouse. Telling.

The Mighty Mouse was terrible too — the trackballs never lasted long at all.

I somehow still have 25 of these in a lab and yes, they are atrocious.

Mice and keyboards have always been problems Apple has been entirely useless at.

It's because the usefulness of a mouse/keyboard scales exponentially with user facing complexity.

A Logitech MX Master 3 for example is packed with features a user figures out and improves their day to day. Ditto a mechanical keyboard, and generally speaking those work best when the user chooses the particular one they prefer best and learns how to use all the features. Ditto deskmats and all the other desktop paraphernalia that modern desk workers are figuring out is pretty neat.

This is the complete antithesis of everything Apple prides itself on being good at.

Which is a focus on "just plug it in and it works, Apple knows best" technology solutions. Devices which just work when you're using 10% of your brain.

Apple as a company utterly despises user customization in general.

But discrete physical user interfaces like mice and keyboards (unlike trackpads, which operate fine out of the box), is a problem space where user customization greatly improves performance.

Apple did make some really good keyboards between 1987 and 1995, that are now considered classics. The mechanical Alps switches are a bit sensitive to dust over time though. In the enthusiast community in recent years, there have been aftermarket parts - as well as DIY kits for new keyboards that use switches and keycaps scavenged from these keyboards.

One good "it just works" thing that Apple has is that the Magic Mouse 2 and "Magic Keyboard"s [1] do automatic pairing of Bluetooth credentials over USB the first time you plug it into a Mac. I think that is a pretty elegant way to do out-of-band pairing — which is the most secure type of pairing. But I do wish that the protocol was standardised and not proprietary, so that it would become available for other peripherals and OS:es.

1: The "Magic Keyboard"s are the ones with built-in batteries, not the predecessors not actually branded "Magic".

Absolutely agree with you 100% on the mouse situation, they are, and have always been, horrible. But my favourite keyboard of all time is actually the aluminium chicklet Apple keyboard. It’s just so satisfying to type on to me. Mechanical keys have always had too much travel for my tastes.

The Logitech MX Keys has a bit more travel and a better angle without being a mechanical keyboard. I have the latest Magic Keyboard for the Touch ID, but I really hated giving up the MX Keys. When switching, I can say it's definitely less comfortable to type on.

I genuinely despise the modern chicklet wireless keyboards they make, but I agree that they've made some good keyboards in the past. The G3 iMac had phenomenal keyboards, arguably one of the best layouts of it's time. It didn't even feel like something Apple would make, it closer resembled an IBM peripheral...

I'll agree that Apple still completely misunderstands what people want from a mouse, but their history with keyboards is a lot less shaky.

The example I had in my mind was "to numpad, or not to numpad."

Apple has an, issue, with keyboard layouts.

Keyboard layouts in general are very variable because of that "numpad" issue, as well as the rarely used keys like the "right click" key to the right of the spacebar (which I absolutely adore).

Many physical keys on your keyboard only make sense if you learn to use them, hence the entire "function keys" debacle of the Macbook Pro. Jetbrains and other software for example just demands extra function keys.

I can totally understand the hardware part. Apple is good at that part, except with their butterfly switches afaik. And I'd love some more polished aluminum at my desk.

I remember. A part of the top shell could snap off and be replaced with a third-party shell that gave the mouse a more elongated shape. There were at least two such shells on the market, even.

While you could use any other USB mouse with Mac, MacOS had a mouse acceleration curve that felt odd. One thing special with the Microsoft optical mice is that they came with a driver for MacOS — with its own mouse acceleration code that fixed this issue.

Just in case somebody's wondering — and I really hope someone is — it's not just a physical issue. Even worse than that, it's also a 'functional' one. In other words, even though the sensor is right at the front of the mouse's underside, you can't just plug it in and, in desperation, rest it on the very edge of your desk to move the pointer. For some reason, plugging it in to charge causes it to completely cease to function.

I'd argue it's probably exactly because it is upside down while charging that it shuts off. It stops you getting annoying flashes of sensor light while it is desperately trying to find a surface.

As far as I can tell, the Magic Mouse never emits flashes of sensor light in that way at all.

I've never used one but that is what I assumed. But I can see the frustration - my Dyson vacuum also will not operate while plugged in which means you can only ever do one battery charge at a time. It's a pain in the ass if you have a bigger job to do.

This mouse topped MacRumors' recent article Apple's Most Questionable Design Decisions in Recent Memory: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/01/23/apple-questionable-desi...

Just wait until you see how the original Apple Pencil (also on that list) charged.

I found the original pencil very slippery, too - impossible to draw more than a few strokes without having to re-seat it.

Any list that includes the Magic Mouse 2 but not the original USB mouse must be blessed by well-repressed memories.

You mean the old one button hockey pucks? God those were so uncomfortable.

Not just uncomfortable, the shape doesn't even tell your hand which way is up. Every time I went back and forth between typing and moving the mouse, I would drag it slightly off axis.

I didn't mind 'em. I don't get why they were so hated. Maybe I don't use mice the right way.

The original Pencil can still charge no matter what case you use; this isn't true of the Pencil 2. I do prefer the grip and ergonomics of the Pencil 2 however.

Loved this:

> So I put my “Magic” mouse on to charge last night; it was at 16%. Got up this morning, and lo and behold, it was still at 16%. Why didn’t I know it wasn’t charging? Because there’s no charging indicator on the mouse. Another Apple “innovation.”

I really hate the Magic Mouse, it’s the only mouse I’ve ever used that causes intense hand pain after only a few minutes of use. It has to be one of the least ergonomic designs for a mouse.

Interesting. For me it’s the best mouse I’ve ever used, and I’ve used _many_ mice. Most ergonomic, most accurate, best overall feeling.

My ex-boyfriend used to rant and rave about how great trackpads were, and while I wasn't opposed to them, I always thought he was being a bit full of himself. One day, I asked him about what mouse he had; lo and behold, he pulls a Magic Mouse out of the drawer. Suddenly I understood where he was coming from (it didn't help that he had arthritis, too).

It's exactly the opposite for me. All other mice are way too high for me, holding them feels weird, clicking and scrolling motions feel cramped, and it doesn't get better even after months of use (had to middle-click a lot last year). I seem to be holding the Magic Mouse in a way that doesn't cause my wrist to twist as far, halfway like a vertical mouse, which I think is part of the reason why it works so well for me. Can't do that with more conventional mice because their shape forces you to hold them in a certain way.

yeah, you must have a hand shape that works well with it.

Some people seems to love it, the mouse being "flat", while I cant stand it and prefer something from Logitech and Microsoft which has more height.

It is the same with butterfly keyboard. Some claims it is the best keyboard ever. While others hated it because it gives zero typing feedback and Key travel distance. Even on the new Magic Keyboard on 2021 MacBook still sucks for me. Adding a keyboard typing case / mat seems to help a bit. But 2015 MBP scissors keyboard is still so much better.

The Magic Mouse is the only mouse I've found that I can use for extended periods...

So this might be less a problem of general ergonomics and more than no design is going to work everyone.

I absolutely love my Magic Mouse 1 and 2, but they were clearly from the era of "this is how it has to be done, you must learn the way" - which was true of so many Apple products. For me, I worked hard at getting used to the MM, and it clicked and I'm happy. The battery life is weeks, so charging it upside down, while odd, is not a real issue.

Apple is hit or miss on these things - I have friends who rave about the Apple touchpads, and while I agree they are better than most PC touchpads, I've never loved them.

The Touch Bar also - never fell in love with it, at least partially since it was clear from day 1 that Apple was not all-in on this newfangled idea - there were no external keyboards with touch bars.

In conclusion - I expect there will be a day when my Magic Mouse 2 dies and replacements are no longer available or supported.

YMMV

I had the displeasure of using a magic mouse for 10 mins at an apple store once. I had to stop using it because my hand started cramping really bad because of the super weird ergonomics of the mouse. I'm a big fan of apple products but the magic mouse is one of the worst.

I have one and my hand cramps after 10 min of use. The click requires too much force, I’d strongly prefer to tap instead. Is this possible to set up? Like with trackpads?

Sliding my finger on the surface is much worse than using a mouse wheel.

I'm pretty sure you can do it with BetterTouchTool, maybe other utilities.

Honestly this is my favorite mouse, I love it for everything other than gaming.

I even tried to use it on windows for a long time (using the Magic Mouse utility app someone wrote).

I love how it scrolls in both axis, I love the gestures. It could do with a middle Mouse button though

My employer gave me one of these when I started, and I couldn't stand it. Not just because it kept running out of battery at the least convenient time, but also because the touch scrolling was leaving my fingers feeling strained by the end of the day. I got them to replace it with a generic $10 wired mouse and I'm much happier.

I’ve been using this mouse on a daily basis since 2017. Mainly for the gestures that work with MacOS.

I totally understand how bad this design is and love making fun of it. That being said, I don’t have to charge it for months at a time and it charges fully in 45 minutes.

It’s really not a big deal.

How often do you use it? Every person I know who has one typically has to charge it about once per week with a typical usage of about 8 hours per day. I have the original Magic Mouse with replaceable batteries, and I have the replace them roughly once per week.

FWIW I use my Magic Mouse 2, 9 hours a day Monday-Friday. I’m pretty sure I don’t charge it more than once every 3 months, if not more

Interesting. I wonder what’s causing the mice in our office to die so much faster.

The charging port location is horrible but, that’s about the only problem unique to it.

In horizontal workflows like video or audio editing it’s much faster swipe left/right, it becomes natural like a track pad. After working like that a scroll wheel doesn’t cut it anymore.

An even better arrangement is a Magic Trackpad on the left (or non-primary) hand for scrolling and gestures, combined with any comfortable vanilla (almost certainly non-Apple) mouse on your primary hand for pointing/clicking/dragging.

Surprisingly, as a right-handed person, I found I gained ambidextrous ability to use a trackpad with either hand very quickly.

> For another, the Magic Mouse has been driving me crazy by not actually “clicking” when I click, because it thinks I’m moving my fingers on the touch surface. Sometimes it takes three of four clicks to actually get a click.

I’ve never once had these issues.

So I went ahead and also bought an MX masters, which is generaaly considered one of the best mice around.

You can turn on free scrolling on the mouse wheel, so that you can smoothly scroll the wheel, and not have those little clicks, you normally get. Only that this doesn't transfer to the scrolling that goes on on the screen - this is still 2-3 lines at a time or whatever.

There's a lot to dislike about magic mouse, but it still does some things way better than the competition - particularly scrolling up and down, but side-to-side scrolling is down-right terrible on normal mice, and an absolute joy on magic mouse.

Reasonable explanation for charging port at the bottom in this 2:30 video: "Why Apple's Mouse Charges From The Bottom"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMSJuatmOdk

Your linked video says:

> 2 minutes of charging will power the magic mouse for 9 hours

This seems in contradiction with what the article says:

> Now. If the mouse had ultracaps instead of batteries, it would charge in seconds, and none of this would be an issue. But it doesn’t. It has batteries. And they charge very slowly. I checked: I plugged it into my mac, and watched the charge indication. It. rises.. very… slowly….

No contradiction. It _does_ charge slowly, but charging for 2 minutes will still power it for a few hours. A full charge takes 2-3 hours, but lasts for a month or more (depending on usage).

Hilarious that you responded to a post that was about design wasting user time with a _video_ that takes 2.5 minutes to say, "...well, it doesn't necessarily waste that much time. It charges quickly."

It is an explanation. Not a "reasonable" explanation.

TLDW: The video speculates that it’s because the mouse charges so fast and lasts for so long that it’s not a big issue, and dismisses people who are complaining by saying that they probably aren’t the ones using the mouse anyway.

Sounds a lot like "you're holding it wrong".

Ie 5:34 video about a totally unrelated things somehow trying to explain why the mighty Apple [0] couldn't place a USB port like a people who care [1] about their users.

FYI: Magic Mouse 2: Release date: October 13, 2015

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Mouse_2

Rechargeable Wireless USB Mouse: June 9, 2008

[1] https://www.geekalerts.com/rechargeable-wireless-usb-mouse/

Not reasonable at all.

The charging port at the bottom was a minor issue for me, but I experienced constant lag and random disconnects. Magic Mouse was beautiful, but flawed in many ways. I use MX now, it just works and don't cause any distractions.

I still have a couple that use AA batteries. The need to switch to an internal battery that when dies renders the mouse useless is the Apple way. The charging port on the bottom is the kiss on the nose for Apple design.

A charge lasts me about a month of all day use, so this is still a non issue for me. Let's see how long until the battery becomes weaker. Enjoyed working with the mouse for a year so far.

This is likely a non-issue for you because you're responsibly recharging it on a regular basis.

Many people are not as responsible as you, and for them Murphy's law means they'll be mouseless at the worst time possible every month.

I have mouse battery anxiety and regulary check how much charge is left.

Can you truly love something that makes you constantly paranoid?

Honestly, the battery status is within reach of just a single mouse click in the Mac OS menu bar, I check it maybe once a week. I think there is even a warning when it reaches very low levels. In the rare case I forget to charge and run out, it is enough to charge it for like 15 minutes to keep working for the day.

I generally like Apple products but agree that their keyboard and mouse are very bad. There must be a way to make a great looking keyboard and mouse without it being a pain to use.

In this specific context, the keyboard is fine — it has a sensible charging port at the back and you can carry on using it when it's charging. IMO, the magic keyboard and mouse are both great in all respects other than this issue with the mouse's charging port.

Reminds me of Apple monitors that have the USB ports on the back.

... I've never seen a monitor with USB ports not on the back.

My Phillips monitors have them on the bottom, my Dell monitor has them on both the bottom and side.

If anything, on the back is far easier to attach than the bottom.

Like only on the back? Or in addition to the sides? Because, if it's the former, that's surprising.

For the record, most monitors that do have USB ports have them on the sides/bottom so you can more easily plug/unplug flash drives and the such.

Apple seemed to envision these monitors as more of lightning dock with an LCD on them.

But with Apple hardware, your monitor USB ports are often the only USB ports.

Drives me nuts. Having to rotate the entire monitor/computer to plug in a USB drive or SD card is such a bad experience.

I've learned to use my phone as a mirror -- I place it below the monitor with the selfie camera, and I can see what I'm doing well enough. It's still a bad design, though.

Logitech MX Master 3 mouse is where it's at.

never looked back.

I prefer version 2, and just updated mine to usb-c charging.

If we're offering our recommendations - Razer Basilisk ultimate is mine. (although I do like the Master as well).

I think the important thing is that there is 'no mouse for everyone' - we have different sized mitts, all hold the mouse differently (I switch between resting and claw), like different shapes (I like a thumb-rest, some people loathe them) etc etc. Really is something you need to try out.

My Apple annoyance is slightly the 'we know best' designs that are often mentioned - but it's mainly the users when they both suffer, but refuse to switch until Apple sells them a solution. My personal niggle was the lack of rubber tips on their earphones from the ipod until the Airpod Pros.

The ultimate example of form over function

It should just use wireless charging

Though that would take longer thank just plugging it in for a few minutes when the low power notice appears. Plug it in, go get a coffee and its good when you come back. If you plug it in overnight once a month, you never have this issue.

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