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Comment by regularfry | Hacker News Reader

Yes, but the problem is that there's still nothing in the node ecosystem that's as complete as Rails. Fine, express.js isn't going to do the job. Neither is anything else.

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This isn’t really true though, NestJS for example is very opinionated and similar.

The issue is more that Node and JavaScript in general is too popular and there are way more options whereas ruby is rarely used for non rails work.

Python is plenty popular and so is C#, and when you're looking at a batteries included full stack framework you have ONE popular choices - Django or .NET. For PHP it's Laravel (sure, you have other options like Symfony but they are niche), for Elixir its Phoenix. How is it a good thing for Node to have 5-10 competing frameworks that have similar adoption?

> How is it a good thing for Node to have 5-10 competing frameworks that have similar adoption?

How is it a bad thing? Again, JavaScript is far more popular than all of those for web related development. The issue is that like you're stating, there isn't a single main option perse. I'd use NestJS.

I think its generally bad, or at least I wouldn't want no part of it. There's decision fatigue for one - how the hell do you decide what to use. Another problem is why would I want to relearn a new framework every time I switched companies? And how do I know these frameworks are going to survive long term in such a chaotic community? I have little doubts Django or Rails will be here in 10 years, can you be confident all these JS frameworks will still be here? Some will and some will probably become irrelevant.

As the other commentator pointed out there are a few options that do have a complete setup. NextJS, SailsJS, and Gatsby to name a few.

Yes Next, Nest, Sails, Gatsby, Blitz, Redwood - none of them became a leading framework like Django or Rails or Laravel has, which means being a Node developer and moving between companies or projects you'll probably relearn everything in a different framework. For me this is just to chaotic and unstable.

I see no difference. PHP has a billion FWs and a billion more CMSs. Python is the same way. Rails is the only example you give that has merit. I mean PHP is a terrible example. I've been coding PHP since around 2007, PHP has Zend FW, Laravel, Cake, Ignitor, Symphony, Silex... it keeps going and going. All I can see from your comment is some biases against JS. You do you on what you want to learn or use. But its not really an argument that holds up imo.

Laravel is the leading PHP framework by far, I don't think it's up for debate. Ruby also has many frameworks (Padrino, Hanami) but it's obvious Rails is the common choice.

Laravel is as much of a leading framework as React/NextJS are the leading frameworks for JS(next 2.5 million weekly downloads on npm, react 15 million). Its almost a 1:1 comparison. In the same way that I already pointed out JS like php, has a million fw but insiders know what the leading ones are. Everyone knows React is the clear on top winner. NextJS is also a clear on top FW. I dont think its up for debate at this point.

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