Ask HN: Burned out SaaS founder: how to go minimal

Here is what I'd do in your situation.

Keep the house. Keep a car. Sell off some excess stuff if you don't use it.

Try hire in help for your Saas to the point where your team run the show and you guide them a few hours a week via conference calls (even if it means earning less).

Buy a cheap cabin or beach house somewhere a few hours away from your home. (Can be run down place near a small town, do not go for a rich getaway.)

When you feel the desire to have some space or go minimal. Escape to the cabin or beach house. Keep it really basic. No TV, just power, water and take a mobile internet connection.

You'll find the limitations while being away from your home help your rest well and recover.

At times you'll desire to go back home, so pack up and head back to your house.

Aside from that, take a vacation once a year if you can. Travel away from home.

That's my thought on this problem.

Last piece of advice. Don't sell your home, unless you have arrangements for another. You have kids and a home is a stable foundation for generations to come.

I know people who sold up only to find they could not buy back later.

Here is what I would do:

- Hire so you can get that 60-70 hours a week down to 20 or so. You want to stay involved, but less intensely and in the areas that you care about.

- Make sure you are working out consistently. If you are doing some yoga, add weights and vice-versa. Check your diet as well: inflammation is a huge health issue that affects our mental health dramatically.

- Sell off/throw out stuff you don't use, especially clothing. A good spring cleaning is always a healing experience.

- Accept that there is nothing in this world will make you happy permanantly. Even minimalism. Even a good family. Even a good dog. C.S. Lewis said that this is evidence that we are not of this world, and I think he may have been right.

You have ascended to the top of maslow's hierarchy of needs and emerged into the desert of the real. It's time to think.

Throwaway account. Oh man, I was in your shoes in a bad way last year. My advice. Sell your business, take the money and FatFIRE in a few years after the golden hancuffs come off. I sold my AI company last year to a unicorn and now lead the R&D group at the new company. There is a beautiful simplicity about just doing what you like, making great money with zero existential stress, and having a prescribed highly certain path for a few years to detox.

Thx for sharing. How do you feel now ?

Better than I have in years. I’m sleeping well, lost 25 pounds without effort, and am getting back to enjoying my family and hobbies again without the monkey on my back. It’s hard to shake the itch to act on new business ideas, but I compensate by spending time on investing and hobbies. My wife has often commented on how much better her life is too without dealing with a chronically stressed out husband. I wish I had done it sooner. Good luck, sir, I hope you can get the clarity rest you’re looking for.

Glad to hear that. I am definitely tempted to do this but worry about employees well being and if I will be able to sell it with the terms I would prefer.

I had the same concern, but was fortunately able to get all my employees a big raise and a few walked away with life changing equity in parent co. Don’t underestimate the aquihire value of a prebuilt team that works well together.

I don't even make 10% as much as you do. I rent a tiny place and I can't afford a car.

Yet I'm also extremely lonely, miserable, depressed and tired.

I'm not a doctor, but I don't think your mental health is related to your finances.

I would rather be crying in a million dollar house rather than an apartment with paper-thin walls, where I can hear my neighbor sneeze.

Did you forget to change accounts?

You had me wondering there for a while. This is 009, and OP was 008. I think that actually makes it more likely to be different persons.

Why are you working 60-70 hours per week? This is probably (far) too much, and probably a big part of the problem, wove you say you feel burnt out, and you exhibit relevant symptoms.

Could you hire someone and delegate 40 hours’ worth of work to them?

Or go further: could you move the business to a structure where you’re only working ~4 hours a week?

Concur, that’s way too many hours. When I was in that position and miserable, I decided to hand off as much of my job to others as possible.

It’s been a long term (20 year) project, but now I pretty much only do a smaller number of key tasks and have plenty of time to think, cook, walk, read, make art, listen to music, be with my family or be by myself. And sleep.

The best part is that at an age when I should be slowing down, I feel mentally energized. I make good decisions, solve interesting puzzles, write thoughtful letters. I’ve filed half a dozen patents in the last couple of years.

Life brings plenty of problems. If you’re too worn out to deal with them effectively, they will grind you to dust. Use your money to buy yourself time.

My take: Start by talking to a therapist.

The question that it sounds like you want to answer is, "What am I missing?" Going minimal may help, but it also may not. The first step is to identify the problem that is causing you to feel the way you do, and that will open up avenues for solving that problem.

Speaking with a well-trained neutral/impartial intermediary is likely the best and fastest way to identify where your misery is originating from.

Advice for what to do beyond that is kind of like taking shots in the dark, without knowing what you're really solving for. The suggestions in the rest of the thread might be good, but I'd save them for when you have a clearer picture of what the problem is. Then, it'll be more obvious which techniques are worth trying.

Good luck!

It is normal for financial freedom to trigger depression. Seek therapy. Don’t sell all your stuff before you have really explored what might be the origin of the problem. No extreme lifestyle changes are going to fix clinical depression.

Appreciate your response. How do I know it is clinical depression ? What type of professional can help with this ?

Multi-million dollar business but can't Google?

That's needlessly dismissive, don't you think?

They clearly came here asking for advice from (potentially) like-minded people. I'd have asked the same question in their shoes.

"How do I know it is clinical depression "

You do not. Self evaluation only brings you so far.

But from the little you shared - I doubt, it is clinical depression.

It "just" sounds like deep burnout.

You fought all you could and reached your self assigned goals - and now you see, it is not enough. There is something missing, but you lack the energy, to figure it out and fight for it.

The most important thing (for most) in life is people and not money. There seems to be your problem. Your potential broken marriage. Money for the sake of it is useless. Money is there to get you the things you want.

You have a house, but this was not what you really wanted. But maybe it was what your wife wanted?

A good therapeut can help with all of that. Figuring it out. A bad one just welcomes your money and plays your professional friend.

You probably lack real friends, you did not made or maintained, in your fight alone to reach your buisness goals.

"You probably lack real friends, you did not made or maintained, in your fight alone to reach your business goals."

This is so true for me. All these years, I haven't truly felt that I have any friends left that I can truly talk to. Got a couple from college but mostly feels superficial now as it is all about kids or work when we talk or meet.

I guess I would look into therapy more. I did talk to someone but they basically were playing profesional friend like you said. So I stopped seeing them. I really appreciate your response. I have things to think about.

Consider yoga or pilates classes. Blocks out time for meditative thought, and gets physical metabolism in order, which in itself improves state of mind.

It may not be depression. It could very well be stress and burnout. To start with: just to to any therapist (ie counselling psychologist or clinical psychologist), basically a therapist. You need talking, and then they can show the way forward. I may be wrong, but this is what I am doing as well.

It's been a weird year, or couple of years.. and somehow it's been drawing us (our little family) back to nature and the things we're really passionate about.

For us that's currently getting a fixer-upper house that's a lot more remote than we're currently living. Not sure what it will be for yourself, but I'm sure there's something you'd rather be learning, even if it's as simple as making your own furniture. Lot more pleasure to be had from furniture than there is from code though. :)

And 60-70h/week sounds like a lot. Spending some of that time doing something mindless like walking/painting/cooking. Move the active thinking to the subconscious mind in those moments. It might actually help you see things in a different light.

Take a look at simonsarris instagram, I believe he also has a blog post about building their house. That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about I guess.

> I don't know what is fun to me anymore. I have no hobbies

Maybe you practiced a sport long ago, try giving that a go again? Or browse a couple hours on YouTube to see what kind of things peak your interest. The algorithm (will waste some time but it) should get better over time at throwing things you didn't even consider your way.

While I am not as successful but I live comfortable life and I feel same way as you.

A few weeks ago, I was feeling really low and asked for similar advice. It really helped writing down my thoughts and reading various comments.

Since then I am feeling really motivated and sort of high on life. I think having an achievable goal is really important in life.

I decided that I was not happy with my work, so I will definitely make a change. Which was a huge stress reliever.

Then I told my boss that I am not feeling motivated at work and I need to move into management. We will see what comes of it but that made everything concrete.

I also started doing leetcode daily, it is boring and pointless but gives me peace of mind since this is plan b.

Then in personal life I am really focused on getting 8 hours of sleep, and other relaxation related activities.

Anyways my suggestion would be start with relaxation. Fix sleep, get massages, hire nanny or housekeeper.

I was also minimalist before marriage, and my wife’s consumption habits are really stressful for me. It is not even about money. I hate stuff and give away things for free rather have them take up space in my house.

I realized I cannot change my wife’s habits, so I am just focused my reaction to her habits. I have all my minimalist gear in one backpack in the house. Working on reducing my wardrobe right now.

Since you have a successful business, Selling it would not be my first step. But if business is still making you feel miserable then sell it.

I think my main point is make a decision to change something and work towards it.

Money is the gateway to "fun" for me. Working enough to afford the stuff I like and never so much so that I can't spend that money. Find the right balance. And if your job/company makes you miserable, hire someone else to do it, you will earn less, but will have more time to do other things more meaningful to you, whatever that is, spend time with family etc...

I hear you. My issue is that I don't know what is fun to me anymore. I have no hobbies, no real friends (most people I would call Friends are all about kids or work, no real personal connection). I do love my wife and kids and they are very dear to me but I feel like I don't live for myself anymore. hard to explain.

After spending so much time working, and nothing more it's understandable. But now that you know what's the problem, all you have to do is try solutions until it clicks. Traveling is nice, learning new skills also ...

Nothing hard to explain. I feel the same way (only one kid).

Just feels like I never get to lead projects or take on big chunks of work past few gigs. I really want to start my own thing in the next few years.

Treating this as a cautionary tale what advice would you give someone wanting what you have?

I'm very lucky that my wife and kids typically leave me alone for a week every year by going to her relatives. I do join them later but I also really appreciate this week alone.

Since my business can be always switched to low-maintenance mode, I can do anything I want during that week. Anything. And I imagined it would be a bunch of stuff but after x years it's not. It's mostly watching movies (projector with nice audio setup) and riding a bicycle. Movies that you don't have to think whether your wife or kids would like. Stupid action movies. Classic b/w movies. Good SF, bad SF. Sometimes I do small fixes around the house with music playing in the background. It brings different kind of satisfaction than software work because it's something physical and you can see and feel what is done.

I really get very refreshed after such week. Maybe because I'm an introvert? It's not comparable at all with any kind of vacation. You don't have to go anywhere, you don't have to do anything, and then things you enjoy the most tend to pop up and stick. It's not like I would live like that 365 days a year, but at least I know what I want when it comes to those rare my days. And then I tend to push for a moderate amount of that during the rest of the year.

Re-evaluate your life. What makes you happy? Work backwards from there. Find a therapist. Step back from the business and delegate as much as you can, it should be able to run with no more than 10-20 hours per week of your time. Use the capital efficiently towards quality of life improvements, not the material hedonistic treadmill. Spend quality time with your partner.

"Re-evaluate your life. What makes you happy?"

Pretty much what I have been thinking about for past few weeks. I thought I was very happy with everything I wanted and suddenly it doesn't feel like it. I dont know where things went wrong. Only thing I can think of is the constant pressure to do better than before which is getting to me I suppose. I forgot about what really matters to me personally.

I just want to second what people have said here, that you need to hire good people. Your value is in what you know about the business, not in doing everything yourself. Find someone you trust to do the daily grind, give yourself breathing room. This may require accepting that not everything will be done the way you want it, and that some fires won’t be put out - but you can now afford to let others make mistakes.

Once you have space to think, you will find things you love. If you can wake up in the morning and not have to go to work, if you have others fighting the fires, you will find new things to fill your days up.

I’m in the process of this right now. After working like you for a long time, I deliberately moved to a warm location and stopped working for a while (2 months so far). Since then, I’ve discovered things I didn’t even know I’d be into (mostly outdoors stuff but there is so much to enjoy in the world).

But whatever you do, the first place to start is to give yourself enough head space to find what you love. Don’t despair that you don’t know what it is yet - set yourself the goal of setting aside enough time to find out!

Good luck.

Maybe doing things that are out of your comfort zone will make you happy, worst case you just walk away with next experiences. Camping can be a fun family activity for instance!

A couple things. Therapy for yourself. Then couples therapy. You earn/have enough money to make this whooole process easy as shit on yourself.

Go see a professional, get off the internet - and fix your problems.

A lot of us lose our direction in life, multiple times. You've been walking down a road you're not sure about for too long.

You might end up changing a lot, or nothing at all. But get some help.

If I was in your shoes I'd..

- Focus on getting business into "lifestyle" mode. The goal is to work max 10 hour weeks while remaining as profitable as you are now (or thereabouts). Once you free up those hours (even getting to 40 will be lifechanging, literally), you'll have room in your life for other things. Right now you're married to your job. You can't have more than one relationship (OK you can, but this is a metaphor or whatever).

- Stop comparing your problems to everyone else. Yes, people are worse off than you. Yes, others are better off than you. It's not relevant.

Until you address the amount of time you have - nothing will change.

Maybe read MJ Demarco or the millionaire next door?

I have a similar situation but make way less money and work for a big tech company. Even at my level I have started to minimize my materialistic / hedonic treadmill tendencies.

Happiness comes with balance. Balance is obtained by moderation. Moderation is saying no to more things or doing more with less. At least my thinking.

Hire someone to manage the business. Take a long vacation in a far away place. I've experienced pretty major burnout from startup life more than once. In at least one case I just needed to walk away, but in others I need a break and change in responsibilities. My biggest issue is taking time for myself, taking vacations. Don't let it all hang on your shoulders alone, get help and try to work fewer hours.

Having kids while doing startups was hard. Sometimes it feels like the responsibilities never end. When my kids got a little older I found more time for hobbies. Pouring myself into hobbies really helped me - satisfied the workaholic in me but in a fun and not stressful way.

Really, take a vacation and get out of town for bit. Not sure what you like, personally I find Barcelona quite refreshing. Go and rent an apartment for a month.

I would hire help to cut back your hours. You are likely your own worst enemy here in thinking you need to work those 60 hour weeks.

And then once you're in a spot where you spend 10-15 hours a week overseeing things for your business, find a cause that is of interest to you and spend some time with your sleeves rolled up making a difference in it.

This is what worked for me. It was astounding to see what a bottleneck I made myself and after burning out and ending up in the hospital with a forced break my business is now in better shape than ever and I have a very simple role just overseeing things. Getting out of my own way was huge and opened up a lot more time with my wife and kids, coaching their teams, doing art projects, etc

Overall for me, i found that it's incredibly fulfilling to simply give and help others.

> I feel so lost right now.

What makes you lost, but in a positive sense? Playing or listening music, books? Riding bicycle, running? Hiking? Physical activities tend to help.

Scale down these 60-70 hours per week, that's ridiculous. There's no life/work balance there. You're running a SAAS, in theory it just keep bringing cash. I know it's not like that but still, see how long the business can coast with your minimal involvement. Use that to your advantage. Who says that business has to always grow? Even if it slows down but you end up happier that's a net positive.

"Who says that business has to always grow"

Yea that's what I am grappling with. I guess I am becoming the victim of FOMO and Social Media pressures of always doing better in business. For the 1st time in my entire life, I have lost clarity on what I want. It is not just about the money but the confusion is how far is enough ? I want to get to 10M in ARR but it is killing me.

What would happen when you reach 10M? That's just a number. What would happen in the best case scenario, if you sell business for 50 or 100 mil and don't have to work a day in your life? What will make you get up from the bed in that case? Maybe it's time to investigate (by being honest with yourself) what you would do in that imaginary future. And then do a bit of that now. You don't have to wait for the finish line.

Good point. I am too busy chasing that "imaginary future" where I am just not enjoying the present anymore even though I am so privileged to be in the position that I am in already. Thank you for that perspective. I am going to really think hard on how to make the present better.

Firstly, I’d like to say congratulations on your success in family and business!

I can only offer some “bio-hacks” (but really they’re key science-backed natural health habits) to master to optimize the mental well-being of humans.

As they say, health is wealth.

First thing: sleep well.

Lack of good quality sleep is known to drive up anxiety, depression, cravings, forgetfulness, irritability, and countless other negative things. It also (perhaps ironically) leaves us feeling empty and constantly unsatisfied.

I’d recommend getting a good sleep tracker (Apple Watch or Oura Ring), and to be diligent about treating your 8ish hours of sleep a night as sacred—though not to become too anal about. It’s important for your energy and spiritual bank account.

Moving on…

Go on a walk every morning in the AM for 30-60 minutes. It’s been demonstrated to have great positive effects on your mood, not to mention your learning ability. I get high from long walks. Maybe it’s due to the fact that I feel that I’m in control of my life when I can be at peace doing “nothing productive” for an hour a day while walking on sunshine, especially before I do any work. On that note, flex your abs when you walk, and walk strong and proud as the godly creator that you are. IMHO if one cannot make time to walk or exercise or otherwise do good things for oneself, then one is enslaved.

Walk periodically throughout the day and look into the distance. For every ~45 minutes of work, we should ideally get up to walk and look into the distance for 5 minutes. Lack of doing this is known to make us feel trapped and can lead to feelings of depression.

Diet is also very important. I won’t spend too much time talking about this, but the Whole30 diet plan is recommended to try out alongside a proper sleep and exercise routine to optimize your mood and cognitive function. Try it for 30 days and see for yourself!

Otherwise minimize excess carbs, processed foods, and foods made with industrial vegetable oils.

Finally…

As others have mentioned, find a good therapist.

Delegate and outsource as much as you can. Your time is infinitely more precious than the extra money that you make.

All the best.

Feel free to reach out.

I'm also a solo founder of a SaaS company (B2B, ~20 employees, profitable). I can't help much on how to go minimal, but I'm happy to connect if talking things through with a peer might help, email me! (Same offer to other CEOs/founders reading this... It's a lonely job and I'd love to connect with people running similar size companies) - brandon@localizejs.com

I'm going to throw a really wild idea out there at you. If you want to move residences, find some location that has particularly poor internet but is otherwise very desirable to live, probably quite rural, and build a small ISP.

Not anything saas related at all but a hyper local thing based on your own physical tangible infrastructure. Become an essential utility in your small local community.

Interesting. Are you suggesting this because you think doing something physical/tangible would be therapeutic and help me have more meaningful relationships with local community ?

Sort of, yes, and also because it seems like you are already considering some sort of drastic change in your work life, lifestyle and location. I thought I would throw a wild idea out there as a possibility to keep in mind as one sort of path to go down, if you do decide to make a clean break from the present reality.

You say you can't be caged into a corporate job, and if you already founded something, you know you can be self motivated for projects you find interesting.

The following is just my personal opinion on level of stress but also 60-70 hours a week is way too much, in general. I can get more done in a focused 40 hour work week without burning myself out. Leaving enough time for other activities and hobbies.

You feel lost because of your wife. Your wife is supposed to be your sanctuary not bring you more troubles. This is the root of your problem. You are misaligned with your family.

I would speak to your wife about what _you_ want to do (go minimal and sell the business) and try to find togetherness there. You are building on sand if you are not aligned with your wife.

Thx for replying. I think that would be a bit harsh on her because honestly she has been very supportive overall on the things that I do. I don't think it is her. I think it is me. I just don't know what is wrong ?

"I don't think it is her. I think it is me"

A marriage/family is a system, where it is seldom helpful to just point fingers and assign blame to one party.

So I think it is you both. You both have a problem and the fights over upgrades in the house are probably just surrogates for something different. Couples therapy is a thing, but so is a real vaccation, that can have the same result.

But maybe you also just need a vacation alone. To meet new people.

Last year me and my wife started talking about moving to a new, bigger, house. She then started to see some websites and prices, and I started to feel pressured because it would mean I would have to work much harder than what I do now. That pressure started to make me feel very anxious, and I do not deal well with anxiety anymore (too much pressure before, there's so much you can do with motivation self-talk). She has been very supportive before, etc., but her actions resulted in pressure anxiety for me.

This just to let you know that sometimes we feel the (subtle) pressure to move on faster, better, keep buying things, renovating the house (as you mentioned in your post), etc. What I did was to have a serious talk with my wife where I mentioned that all this talk was making me feeling pressured and anxious, and that to move I would have to work more hours, and that it doesn't meet my goals as I need free time for myself and my own things. Eventually she understood, stop putting pressure on me, and dropped that talk.

Of course, it seems simple (A => B), but I had to search inside myself which are some of my personal goals, what do I really need (vs want) in life, etc. Only after I defined these things (by lots of introspection and journal writing) did I feel confident enough in putting some breaks in this thing. For instance, you may want those 10M (you mentioned somewhere), but in fact you may only need time for yourself.

All in all, just to suggest that you should carefully do an introspection (search for articles on how to find your goals in life, things like that, and adapt to yourself). It will take you some time, and you may not be 100% sure of things, but more sure than you are now. Then, talk to your wife, and if she's a good one, she will understand and support you.

Sounds like you need another C-level or management team to start entrusting with your responsibilities. With that kind of income, you should not be working that many hours. I mean, as the founder, you will still be busy, but shouldn't be constantly overwhelmed

I do have a team but business is not completely self sustainable without me yet. Perhaps that is one area I can look into as well and spend a bit less time on it than the 60-70 hour weeks. Thx for your suggestion.

That should be a high point of focus. It's hard to give up control, but you have to think about the "hit by a bus" scenario. In the rare chance that you were hit by a bus tomorrow, it would be a large impact since they would not be sustainable without you. What would be your team's plan for filling in your role? Answering this can help to plan out how your responsibilities can be grouped together and offloaded to others, among other things.

Dude you’ve got to talk to someone. Not professionally (maybe that too) - but just a peer To talk to as a friend. The factual shit to ground you and connect you to someone else: where you grew up, how to met your wife, what college was like, your kids, etc.

Get some family or trusted friends to babysit the kids and go take MDMA with your wife.

Hey bud. I'm in the same type of job and the same middle class monetary ballpark as you. (I think $1-$10M net worth is middle class these days, half that number if you're not married and don't have kids). I also sold everything once in 2004 and left America for ten years. And have recently been miserable as ** since being back here, despite having all the consumer toys I never thought I'd have, and a paid-off house and cars which I don't even want in my life. I'm also just thinking of how I can ditch them responsibly.

I do have this one weird habit, leftover from my van life in South America, Europe and Asia. I keep all my daily clothes in a suitcase on the floor of my closet. Folded and zipped up. I don't know why, I just can't hang them up. Everything you own is a weight. It keeps you from being yourself. Your true self is who you are weightless, on the road and just coping with tough situations, interacting with new people, seeing strange and amazing things. Better if you're with someone you can share that with. But OK by yourself. Certainly better that than being by yourself in a big house.

I'm not single either, or quite as free as before, but the strain of covid and the general decline of conversation and the rise of all this complete horseshit online, the anger of the world and the number of crank lunatics in it, the breakdown of my family into squads of ultra-left and ultra-right fanaticism, the general thoughtlessness and lack of courtesy, the homeless on my doorstep and the shots fired down the street every night, all make me wonder what the fuck I'm doing here.

I guess if I were you I'd be asking my wife about taking the kids and getting the fuck out for awhile. March 1st the truck drivers are probably going to take this country apart for awhile, it sounds like. It's hard to dodge a bullet between covid waves but this would probably be the time. My ex tells me (I call her drunk) that I need a vacation. But she lived on the road with me for ten years, so she knows it ain't just a vacation I need, not like people who just go to Hawaii for a week.

My personal advice given the lack of travel options and the hit and miss levels of covid now would be, you can rent a beach house near Cabo Polonio in Uruguay for eh, $200/wk if you're ok with rough wooden floors and don't care about fancy amenities, quite a bit more if you do. Get someone to house sit and take your family down there before the cold weather hits (it starts to get cheap now, it's dead and cold by end of March). If you spend a month there and don't feel like coming back, then buy a van and go to Brazil. Who the hell is qualified to judge you?

Whatever you do, I admire your journey, struggles and seeking a better way. Pain is personal and relative through life's cycles. All the best.