Comment by pitdesi | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pitdesi | Hacker News Reader

Hey guys, to answer the most popular question: Samurai is not yet functional for merchants outside of the US (but it does take international cards). The original FeeFighters product (comparison shopping for merchant accounts) is in Canada though, so you can still get a great deal on a merchant account (http://feefighters.ca)

Samurai will eventually get there at some point. Likely first in Canada in the next month or 2 and then we'll explore Europe. There is SO MUCH DEMAND for international that it's overwhelming. We really wish we could help out... the truth is that each country we enter is really complicated and we have to tread carefully because we need to ensure that our partners are great, that we can provide round the clock support, etc. We just aren't there yet.

Fill this out and we'll let you know when we launch in Canada: https://docs.google.com/a/transfs.com/spreadsheet/embeddedfo...

And this one for Europe: https://docs.google.com/a/transfs.com/spreadsheet/embeddedfo...

Also - for an overview on credit card processing (if you are wondering what the hell a gateway or processor is, etc) - check out our ebook (note this was written pre-samurai): http://feefighters.com/ebooks/what-is-credit-card-processing...

Does that mean it is not open for MERCHANTS outside the US or it won't take CARDS from outside the US? You may want to clarify this for potential customers.

Thanks, I didn't think of that. Clarification noted above.

Your intro clip mentions that the intelligent routing will send foreign payments to foreign merchant accounts - I take it that that part is more of a 'coming soon' portion?

Yup... our backend allows for that but we haven't built the connection to any foreign platforms just yet.

So, yet again another easy-to-use & modern payment gateway that doesn't work outside of the US.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to check these links since I already know it's going to be the same. I will not hold my breath for international support either.

Sounds like that's just the way it is. If it were easy and if they didn't have to set it up for each and every country (it's not like this is The US vs. The World) then you'd see more "international" support.

I've stopped bothering.

Anyway, payment processing is a solved problem in the Netherlands. Which other countries have sensible, cheap payment, easy-to-implement solutions that are widely used?

A solved problem in the Netherlands? What payment processor do you recommend?

The options I have looked at in the Netherlands all seem really bad or run on ancient technology. You can't even get Paypal Payments Pro, Amazon payments or google checkout. You can't get Braintree or any of the other web 2.0 payment processors.

Ogone looks sort of OK, but I don't know of any others.

I meant iDeal, which will allow you to reach most Dutch internet users, as opposed to PayPal or credit cards (relatively few Dutch people have credit cards).

We use MultiSafePay, which is a "online checkout" solution (you're routed to their site with your template if you have the most expensive plan). They support credit cards, but that's based on acceptance by their processor, PaySquare. The problem boils down to, just like Canada mentioned above, there are only two or three credit card processors. Even Ogone uses PaySquare or Atos Worldline in the Netherlands (they, like FeeFighters have different relationships in different countries). Ogone is a spinoff of Fortis bank, so is quite "bank minded".

Not Australia. :)

You're okay if you want to do a webshop and just cater to the Dutch market in which case you can use just iDeal.

But if you want to do international recurring payments you don't have that much options in the Netherlands.

You can go with one of the following: Spreedly+Ogone (which needs extra tweaking to support VAT) or Recurly+WireCard

Or pick a more expensive all-in-one solution such as Avangate.

Am I missing others?

Finnish banks have had domestic customer-to-business online payment system (TUPAS) running since 2000 or so. It sounds very similar to the Dutch iDeal scheme. It used to be a pain to set up since you had to sign a contract with each bank chain you wanted to accept payments from, but nowadays you can sign up with a gateway instead.

I don't understand: if the demand is international and there are plenty of viable US options, why build another US-only product?

Someone recently suggested checking out paymate.com. Yes, they're international and best of all, they say they're committed to reducing unfair chargebacks that PayPal customers have become so accustomed too.

I've tried Moneybookers, but they're a little iffy (bad reports about account limitations). So next step is definitely PayMate.com. Fingers crossed.

I'm not privy to details inside FeeFighters, but I'd guess the conversation went something like:

1) We don't have a lot of money to build this thing (Samurai).

2) We are in Chicago, IL, USA. We are familiar with the laws and customs in Chicago. We speak the local language.

3) The laws and language from Chicago, IL, USA happen to be more or less applicable across a very large and fairly wealthy single market. Merchants near Chicago, IL, USA tend to be in their offices when I'm awake and my kids are at school.

4) Let's start with that market and expand to others once we get the resources to do so.

Honestly, American startups don't purposely omit non-US markets. But when you're trying to get to profitability on limited funding, this train of logic will come up and you really need a good reason to decide to pick an unfamiliar market to start.

if the demand is international and there are plenty of viable US options, why build another US-only product?

I'm not sure "there are plenty of viable US options" is entirely accurate. I've tried a bunch of options, and found them all to suck to one degree or another. We're currently using PayPal Web Payments Pro...it also sucks. But, at least their pricing is sane and comprehensible, and I don't hate life when dealing with them fro chargebacks and such (it's all on the web, and no faxing is involved, as was the case with every other merchant services provider I've ever tried or contacted, including supposedly modern options).

Merchant services is shockingly archaic in the US. It may be even more shockingly archaic in the rest of the world, but it's definitely not good here. I'll definitely look into this when it becomes available.

Just for fun everyone should look at this list: http://www.ogone.nl/nl/Extra%20Services/~/media/PDF/Acquirin... (PDF) Look at the number of different companies used to be able to offer Ogone's international payment services. That's lot of relationships to build...

From our perspective - we really really want to be international.

We would LOVE to deal with non-US companies and people and hope to do so soon, but for our particular business it's a bit hard right now. Creating relationships with credit card processors we trust (and that you should trust) is really hard.

Another part of it is honestly just that the US market is so big and we have room to grow here, and it's not as easy as it seems - For example, we have phone and chat support during normal US business hours. I don't know what we'll do when we have European or Asian customers. Other issues include taxes, currency and currency risk, taking payments, etc. There's a lot to think about there. We really want to do it, but to do it right requires a lot of thought, and we just haven't done it yet.

Not only that but in my experience there are far more options for processors within the US and they are not as conservative in some cases (or so it seems).

In Canada we have a number of processors but there are only two (TWO!) acquiring banks. TD and CIBC if I remember correctly. I believe that relationship has caused a monopoly at the top and extremely conservative processors here in Canada.

I base this on information I've gathered over the last year and a half as a merchant and represents my best knowledge of the industry - if I'm incorrect in any of this I'd love to hear it as it may provide a path for me to loosen some of the chains. It's very, very difficult to progress with an innovative payments model in Canada due to this.

I know people are complaining about not being available in Canada and/or Europe, but the fact that you have Canada in your near future plans gives me hope.

I've added my email to the Canada list, and I look forward to the day you arrive.

Best of luck!

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