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Comment by raxxorrax | Hacker News Reader

Never understood what problem people have with shaking hands.

As a woman, handshakes aren't always great. Some guys take the 'firm' thing way too far and try to crush my hand: I'm not impressed, I'm angry that my hand is sore. One time that was a bruise that lasted several days. Other guys are creeps and keep holding on to trap me in conversation; usually to flirt or say something completely inappropriate. I get that people are touch deprived, but it lends legitimacy to the touch depraved. Hug your buds, I'd be happier with the Japanese bow in business settings.

I suspect - with zero evidence - that handshakes are a male way of greeting, and women got included in it, because what else would you do, but it doesn't work well for them.

This is consistent with my experience. I can’t recall the last time I saw a woman shake hands where it wasn’t basically obligatory. Men on the other hand do. The difference in behaviors is most noticeable in informal settings where personal preference can dictate behavior.

It's also a standard greeting in north American business culture. Failing to fit culture is a "legitimate" reason to be excluded. And yes, lots of men have expressed that handshakes are a men's club. I know guys do the crushing handshake thing as a dominance game. I'd love to be left out of that garbage without being deprived of equal opportunity.

I can understand the crushing handshake as some kind of game between men.

Doing it to a woman seems more like a form of assault.

No. Just like ass-slapping, it's assault if it's unwanted, regardless of gender.

Like everything, it depends on the context. Ass-slapping athletes are different than Ass-slapping construction workers.

No. Consent is the only thing that matters. Gender and profession is completely irrelevant. It should be obvious that you don't touch people without their consent.

> I know guys do the crushing handshake thing as a dominance game.

It's ironic how an attempt to show dominance is actually such a clear demonstration of (psychological) weakness.

Not sure if it's urban legend or not, but I read somewhere that handshakes started in feudal times: you shook each others arms to make sure nobody was hiding a knife underneath their armor. But that might be another "railroad tracks are the width they are because of roman war horses" story.

Maybe, I've noticed that most females prefer the hug greet over a handshake greet.

I don't think it has anything to do with gender. I'm a man and have the same complaints about handshaking as klyrs, and the person who crushed my hand the hardest was a woman.

Interestingly enough, handshakes started as a "I'm not carrying a weapon", and that war/combat is essentially a male field.

In reality though, it's very much a male tendency to pursue and display their physical strength; that handshakes also become an avenue for this is unsurprising.

Yeah, there are the heavy squeezers, but they are quite rare. Otherwise even women can shake hands.

You expressed curiosity about why people dislike handshakes. I've been in the biz for over 20 years now. In my experience, about 1 in 100 guys are going to do one of the two behaviors I mentioned. That means I can expect at least one every few days at a conference. "Rare" in your experience doesn't translate to "uncommon" in mine. It's not an irrational fear.

Never understood the problem people have with hugs…

Everyone has a different level of physical touch they desire and a level that they are comfortable with.

I honestly lament that the hugging culture in my wider social circle has probably permanently gone away (if that social circle ever really recovers, considering it was built around small venue music and art).

The permanent loss of warmth in my life is very noticeable.

Hugs are great! But, where dudes can be creepy with a handshake, a hug is much more vulnerable. Hugs are for trusted friends.

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