Comment by pbhjpbhj | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pbhjpbhj | Hacker News Reader

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>Why should kids be taught programming instead of reading, writing, language and maths? //

>adding an extra topic that will only be useful to a small number of people would be wasteful. //

Just as a comparison. In Wales, Welsh language is taught throughout school and in every lesson. Yet English language is understood and used by nearly everyone in Wales and Welsh language is used by less than 20% of people. In addition Wales is the only country where it has any significant use. Welsh language is taught as the most important subject.

Clearly UK curricula don't look at utility or life application as the most important aspects of subjects taught.

Yes, it's a bit of a bête noire for me.

>how much better do you think they would be able to do their job if they knew how to program //

A little? How much better can they do their job if they know how to do algebra, or order a sandwich in France?

I'm not sure I agree with jgrahamc but I'm not sure I'm with you either ...

Yes, Welsh is pretty much useless, but we're talking about introducing a new subject.

Maths is useful in a lot more situations than programming would be, I bet most people don't realize how often they use maths without realizing. Things like algebra are about logic, deducing things, figuring things out. French is, again, a subject that can be dropped at 16 and not a core subject. I didn't study French at school (Technically I should have done Spanish but that was the same time I had my SLS instead)

In my primary school we had a basic computing class. We'd use different programs to familiarise ourselves with both the hardware and software. It would arise in other classes too, where it made sense - I remember typing my short story up into (whatever word processor the BBC Micro had). We even used LOGO - although with little success for most of the class. When you have to ask one of your students to help and fix problems on the computer, it's not a good sign, and the teachers often leant on me. So for a start that is the main problem in schools IMO. No point having a subject if people can't teach it properly.

Programming is _also_ about logic, deducing things, figuring things out!

My inclination is probably towards teaching logic, probably as part of the maths curriculum, and by extension teaching a little programming as part of that logic.

Math is much more pervasive than programming, but it is also true that people often do or could use the basic ideas of programming without realizing. For example: understanding data structures when using a word processor or spreadsheet, understanding security when using passwords, understanding data representation when using any kind of digital tool, etc.

And we justify mandatory schooling by saying society is complicated and there are some things people need to learn to be able to live reasonably.

How does Wales justify locking up young humans and forcing them to learn something which isn't in their best interests, something which isn't in their society's best interests, something which cannot survive on its own out of interested people keeping it alive by choice? It's abusive and should be stopped.

How much better can they do their job if they know how to do algebra, or order a sandwich in France?

Arguing that programming skills wouldn't help... have you not worked in an office and seen first-hand the dreadful computer literacy? Even among IT and technical people? Skill in bulk manipulating information would help a lot of people, if they realised it was possible and something they could potentially do, I think.

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