Russia Closes Airspace over Ukrainian Border Through May 18th | Hacker News Reader

Russia Closes Airspace over Ukrainian Border Through May 18th

notams.faa.gov

24 pointsselectodude25 comments

Russia cannot produce a car that more than 20% of it’s own population is willing to buy. If you enter any Russian kitchen - you will see European or Asian appliances. If you enter living room - you will see imported entertainment devices. No, there isn’t a Russian Playstation equivalent. If you open closet or look in the shoe rack - you won’t find Russian brands either.

What I would like to see happen sooner rather than later - is economic and travel blockade of Russia until it ceases it’s aggression:

- No payments in or out. - No goods in or out. - No flights or travel in or out.

Which should remind them of their true state of economic affairs and what they ought to focus their energies on.

I find it ridiculous that while there’s an army massing on the borders of Ukraine, Russians continue to travel to European destinations, conduct commerce, and generally go about their lives unimpeded, unhindered, and unbothered.

May result in a nuclear war, if he's sufficiently crazy

And that's what allows such an approach to continue. Whenever Putin feels it, he decides that another aggressive take on Russia's neighbors is justified, and can't be countered - because he has nuclear bombs and willingness - untested, of course - to use them.

How would that work? “Conduct commerce with me or else”? Then why stop there? “Give me your territories or else”. I mean hostile annexation of Ukraine, creation of puppet micro-nations in Georgia, Moldova are already conducted with an implied threat of nuclear war. That threat is ever-present even if you impose an import tax on Russian goods. Where’s the line?

What I am most frustrated about is the broad support that Putin’s government enjoys generally from a populace that does not seem to remember where everything they rely on comes from, while enjoying their European and Turkish vacations.

> What I am most frustrated about is the broad support that Putin’s government enjoys generally from a populace that does not seem to remember where everything they rely on comes from, while enjoying their European and Turkish vacations.

It's not such a broad support - when Crimea was occupied, the support was higher. It's insufficiently low today though. And the people have 24/7 propaganda coming from TVs, with many of them not very skillful with Youtube and VPN - and it's psychologically hard to withstand a lie which is repeated hundreds of times.

unfortunately Russia is so large, no flights over Russia would have more impact on international travel than you'd like. Complete travel blockade is also not something major airlines would want, because of "use it or lose it" gate slots at many busy airports.

majority of brands in Russia, much like in a lot of other countries are made in China, so good luck with that. Besides, most companies don't give 2 shits about international politics and their margins are so thin, they ain't about to lose x% of their revenue. Oh, and shell companies also exist.

lastly, all the actions you are suggesting will impact regular-ass Russian people, that have fuck all to do with politics.

The point of what I am suggesting is to impact regular Russian people who broadly support Putin and his policies.

They don't support him - Putin didn't have fair elections, not at least for decades, and would certainly lose in 2018 if not for the corrupted election officials. And the level of support is dropping - wait until Ukraine will start supplying dead bodies back to Russia, and remember how enthusiastic Soviet people were when similar things happened in Afghanistan.

Half of them support a Ukraine invasion when asked in an anonymous cnn poll. There is a lot of support unfortunately. Don't be naive, they have been brainwashed and many actually buy into it.

> they have been brainwashed

> and many actually buy into it

Choose. Those are not compatible, colloquially.

I dont know a single person supporting him, idk what are you on about

I believe that you personally don’t know anyone, but that doesn’t hold up nationally.

Polls indicate 69% of Russians approve Putin’s government.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra...

It’s not hard to find this information.

Nationalism in Russia, whipped up by mostly government-controlled media is at all time high.

Germany's current gas reserves would last until about the summer, if it completely ceased importing gas from Russia (currently about 40% of its demand is met by Russia iirc). After that, things would get complicated for industry and possibly even people (in the winter).

Yeah it would suck for everyone involved, with the hope that it will suck the most for Russia -which seems to take a geopolitical stand that “it doesn’t need any friends”. But perhaps the fact that US and EU comprise 2/3rds of the world economy, their united action could blunt the pain. I think if the West continues to look for such a solution that will not impact any constituent states, will not hit the pocket, avoids upsetting the voters, does not disrupt business - it will end up not doing anything remotely close to be powerful enough to challenge Russian aggression.

Blockades can be considered acts of war, and I am getting pretty tired of the bluster that people are throwing around about this situation.

Everything can be considered act or war - heck, Putin easily manufactures history which suits his wishes. As they say, Russia is the country with unpredictable past.

On the other hand, there was Cold War - with limited channels for contacts. That experience can be used. However we have the problem which wasn't there in Cold War - the Western politicians are much more spineless, probably because the Western population cares less about war and peace.

Actual acts of actual war, you know, like annexing territories and engaging in military confrontation- should also be considered acts of war, no?

Sorry to tire you so.

Did I say they weren’t? What you’re advocating is for the west to initiate policies that could directly lead to conflict between nuclear powers. The state of war that exists today would be between the breakaway regions backed by Russia and Ukraine. I’m not naive and arrogant enough to think the west attempting to blockade Russia and punishing her citizens abroad is a proportional response to that.

Well to clarify my stance here, I am not advocating for punishing citizens abroad - they ought to return if they wish. What I am calling for is return to the travel arrangements that were in place prior to the fall of Soviet Union (and that are still very much in effect with many poor 3rd world countries). West simply did not make it all that easy to get an entry visa.

Russian troops are in these regions and therefore the conflict would primarily be between Russia and Ukraine if Russia pushes forward.

Good morning! Russian military conducting rocket and aerial attacks and is poised to soon enter Ukrainian population centers.

Still thinking of that proportional response?

I am Russian speaking by the way. I’ve been to both Ukraine and Russia, many times. I can’t describe how psychotic and belligerent it feels that Russia has turned it’s murderous aggression towards another brotherly nation. It’s a moment of profound shame and anger and it is my sincere wish that Russian leadership faces justice for this.

It’s too bad we didn’t get to continue our debate I have since learned a term that I was going to employ: Salami tactics. (Meaning “slice-by-slice”). Apparently it’s from a show “Yes, Prime Minister.”

E) AIRSPACE CLSD WI AREA: 451511N0372130E-451531N0372401E-451354N0372556E-451233N0372838E- 451004N0372607E-451448N0371959E-451511N0372130E. F) SFC G) 600M AMSL

Look for these. This says that the airspace is closed from surface to 60k MSL (the unit is hundreds of feet) with a defining border. You can plot these points by rewriting them then putting them in any map site.

451511N0372130E is the same as “N 45 15 11 E 37 21 30” which plots in Apple Maps and google maps if you paste it as I converted it. The format is degrees minutes seconds.

I made a website that detects, converts, and plots all types of coordinates. However, it cannot identify those as defined in the NOTAM because it is not distinguishable from other formats without spaces or some nonnumerical separators.

Well I guess they expect to be done by then.

That looks like 90 days. Is that the limit to how long a non-permanent NOTAM can be?

They can always renew it in May...

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