Hacker News Reader

Comment by karpierz | Hacker News Reader

> Of course, we can't stop eating every animal

Why? There are plenty of people who do.

I can’t tell how true that is. I’ve certainly heard that a lot of people who claim to be vegan aren’t 100%. Are there any reliable studies on this topic?

Not eating animals does not immediately get you to vegan. Human body is not designed for a vegan diet. However, eating animal products that don't kill the said animal, (milk, cheese, yogurt, eggs etc) is sustainable and feasible. Of course factory farms, which encourages over consumption, are not the way to go.. Not everything needs to be eaten daily. Also, things like 4 egg omlet with a mountain of cheese etc are an abomination. Consume in moderation and the production won't be a burden on the planet.

The human body also isn't designed for vaccines, going to space, or doing math. Somehow, when we need the human body to do something, we find a way to make it happen.

I appreciate the point you are making. Humans have ingenuity, for sure. But I have to disagree on a finer point. We do not know what the long term effect of vegan diet is. Supplements may work to an extent but may not be complete. To contrast with your examples, vaccines work with the body's natural defences and even there long term testing is needed to uncover unexpected side effects. Going to space is risky and even after controlling for all we can think of disasters happen. Not sure all of human race should embark on a risky mission of vegan diet without fully understanding the long term consequences. Morally I am ok with animals like cows and chicken bred for milk and egg. Your threshold is different and I get that too.

It is not always possible to get all the nutrients you need without animal products, either because they are not available or because the price is too high.

Rice and lentils.

There are definitely people in situations where the burden of a vegan or vegetarian diet would cause much more harm to them personally than the harm an omnivore diet would cause. I don't blame people for the uncontrollable, and I don't know that anyone who holds a well-thought out position on animal suffering would either. Suffering is the superset of all suffering. My ethical heuristic is to make choices with an eye toward reducing that set.

The burden of a violent diet (nmeat and diary) is much higher that a plant based one to any sane human.

Okay, then if that point is ceded, would you agree then that we ought to only eat the fewest animal products necessary to get those nutrients in safe levels?

People always argue against veganism by saying “Ah well, can’t get all my B12 from plants so I guess eating this McDonalds quarter pounder is justified!”. Why not remove everything else that is an animal product lacking the nutrients you need, and only eat what animal products you absolutely need?

For the record, it’s the consensus of every major nutrition and dietetic institute globally that a plant based diet is suffix for all stages of life, so even granting the point that veganism disallows access to a full nutritional profile is generous.

>Okay, then if that point is ceded, would you agree then that we ought to only eat the fewest animal products necessary to get those nutrients in safe levels?

Yes

But we also need to reduce the numbers of our pets. Especially free strolling cats are a massive hit to the ecosystem.

Agreed

Ignoring the price issue.

If I were to consume my daily protein via plant sources, it would come with an INSANE amount of carbs.

Absolute nonsense. There are over 80 million fit and healthy vegans worldwide.

Processed food weather it is vegan or carnist is always more expensive but fruit, vegetables, lentils, beans, nuts, seeds, grains etc are all actually very very cheap compared to meat and diary in a western diet.

Maybe you should leave your bubble, there are parts of the world where food is still hunted and vegetables are more expensive

https://www.indy100.com/news/inuit-hunting-vegan-arctic-indi...

There are plenty of people who strive for some kind of vegetarian or vegan diet, but they aren't not eating animals unless they are inspecting every food item they consume for all the microscopic animals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-animal

I think it's well understood that when vegans or vegetarians say they don't eat "animals" they are generally talking about, at minimum, macrobiota and not tardigrades, etc.

Well then they aren't not eating any animal. It's pretty simple. I'm not attacking them for the oversight just pointing it out. It should be forgivable for swallowing a fly but vegan and vegetarian food production still harms animals(example: insects are animals) and they still eat some animals accidentally. It's an improvement but it's not perfect.

I’m genuinely not sure what you think matters about this fact.

I'm just defending the statement "Of course, we can't stop eating every animal".

Why are you here?

Because most governments aren't going to use violence to stop you from eating meat. Until then people will eat meat.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com