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Comment by molo_ | Hacker News Reader

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molo_

This is more than just a quirk. Lets go through the bogons here:

1. Signal system confuses notifications with commands

2. API ties windows to threads

3. System allows you to send WM_DESTROY from one thread to another even though it provides undefined behavior

4. DestroyWindow() can only be called from a particular thread (related to item #2)

5. The API doesn't detect that the window has been destroyed as far as the application is concerned (whatever happens in ForgetWorkerThread() or PostQuitMessage(), the window actually goes away) without a DestroyWindow() call.

In short, WTF.

[edit: format]

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"2. API ties windows to threads"

OK, so what's the alternative? Automatic locking at OS-level? How can the performance penalty in those many cases where it is not needed be justified? Same goes for your arguments 3, 4 and 5 btw. Why should such low-level functionality impose important design decisions on those who follow the documentation, just to protect the beginners who don't? I much prefer my raw control, thanks - and I'll happily take the few times I shoot myself in the foot with it, err, with it.

Despite its warts and its legacy cruft, the win32 is quite flexible, and easy to understand - at a very basic level, not much studying of under-the-hood stuff required. For an OS-level API, it packs a lot of power into a small set of concepts.

You argue for more control, but tying windows to threads at the OS layer is actually enforcing less control.

Just a quick meta response because i see you're new.

You don't need to sign your posts as your user name appears above your post.

Hi, thanks but that is what I've been doing for ages.

To be more specific, it is against the posting guidelines here. Nothing personal. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Perhaps you should read the guidelines here:

Specifically

> Please don't sign comments, especially with your url. They're already signed with your username. If other users want to learn more about you, they can click on it to see your profile.

Is it really necessary to downmod me for that?

I think we're way off topic but I'll try to end on a good note by pointing out that I can't downvote you as you responded to my post.

You'll find the community here is great, but you should try to play by it's rules:)

Sure, that wasn't directed at you personally. Thanks and cheers.

Well it seems that we hit the nesting limit, so I will reply to this post. I'm not including a URL, I'm just signing my name. Please keep in mind that is a guideline.

How?

2. API ties windows to threads

What UI APIs are there that don't have a concept of UI thread(s)? Coming from Windows, I'm used to UI work needing to be done on a UI thread.

I randomly googled these comments:

"Never, ever, touch the UI from outside your UI thread, in any version of Qt."

"Android UI toolkit is not thread-safe and must always be manipulated on the UI thread."

google "iOS 'non-UI thread'": 60 million results.

javascript: everything UI-related runs on one thread.

Do you do much UI coding?

This is about an OS-layer API, not a windowing toolkit API. Tying the window to a thread at this layer makes it impossible to have a single-threaded UI application. It is inflexible.

What exactly is the problem with the approach?

Sorry. I've read your comment a couple of times and am unable to make any sense of it. Win32 is a (dated, clunky) API for writing GUIs (in part). "OS-layer" is babble in this context.

And yeah, i would stop signing your posts - it comes across as conceited somehow; like each comment is a big deal.

"This is about an OS-layer API, not a windowing toolkit API"

What does that even mean? Of course you can have single-threaded UI applications in Windows, the majority of them are. Have you ever written a Windows application in C or C++?

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