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Comment by kelnos | Hacker News Reader

This is the sad thing about all of this. Many people are demonizing average Russian citizens for the actions of their government.

When the US invaded Iraq in 2003, I was very much against it, but felt powerless to change the course of my government. (And the US government kept on doing what it felt like, no matter how unjust its actions.) While I was ashamed of my country's actions, I didn't think it would be fair for people in other countries to punish me personally for them.

And this is in the US, a supposed liberal democracy! What chance does your average Russian citizen have of getting a dictator like Putin to change his mind here?

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The average russian citizen supports the war

Maybe, but you can't prove that with polls. It's illegal to oppose the war in Russia. The polls everyone is citing were conducted by state TV.

Presuming they didn't just make up their data, imagine you got a call from state TV asking "if you support the special military operation to denazify Ukraine". Your friend just told you they know someone who knows someone who was arrested and charged with oppositing the war for holding up a blank piece of paper in public. Do you tell them the truth?

Edit: Here's an anecdote from Russian social media. A person asks why prices are so unstable. The entire shop looks at the ground, mumbles, and ignores them. Does that sound like enthusiastic support or terror to you? https://therussianreader.com/2022/03/16/dixie/

It's quite ironic how medias use Russian polls when it sticks to their narrative, and bashes them when it doesn't (i.e. Crimean referendum). We should take them all with the same level of skepticism.

It's a broader pattern where they pattern match words without understanding. Like assuming Patriarch Kirill is some kind of fatherly pope-like figure just because of the title and distinguished beard, when in reality he's an ex-kgb agent who made his fortune as a cigarette smuggling gangster.

I don't think it's about "the narrative" though. I've generally seen these polls used by people who self-identity as against the narrative. These polls are usually posted in the comments section to rebut articles arguing (correctly) not all Russians support the war.

If you look at the details it's also more optimistic than you might think. For example 25% of under-30s support the war.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/07/russia-s-tricky-opin...

I agree with the sentiment here.

Theoretically though in representative democracy you choose the government to represent you and be an agent for making your decisions. You are responsible for what your government does in part that equals 1/Population

everybody knows that representative democracy is not representative. so, no, even theoretically you're not responsible for that reason. although you may be responsible for not doing anything to put in place a more representative democracy in your country (ie. be more involved in politics)

Majority of average Russian citizens support their goverment actions against Ukraine. So in my book, they are also responsible.

> Majority of average Russian citizens support their goverment actions against Ukraine

They do. Now, will installing malware on their computers make them change their mind and support Ukraine instead?

I don't advocate or support such malware instalation. Just saying that "Russian citizens have nothing to do with this war" is false. There are better ways to express your support for Ukraine, for example, make malware targeting only military or govermental institutions that are directly involved.

It may be the case but no one knows for sure. There is no independent sociology in Russia and the state controlled one is a gear in propaganda machine. Also many Russians are afraid to speak what they think and when asked just repeat what they heard on TV even if they don't agree.

This sort of logic justifies terrorist's killing of civilians like 9/11. If they can quote your book, the US citizens voted the governments in that oppressed and bombed members of their religion.

kbart doesn't defend the malware creator. He only made a counterargument to the statement that Russians aren't responsible for their government.

yes, but the majority of russian citizens don't install node modules. This is hitting a demographics where you have the least possible support for war and regime (which is also not small, but maybe, hopefully, not a majority)

> Majority of average Russian citizens support their goverment[sic] actions

That is a pretty bold claim to be made without any supporting evidence.

Majority of average American citizens support their government's actions against Iraq/Syria/Libya/Vietnam/... . So in my book, they are also responsible.

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