$20 to Mint Your Prayers on “The Blockchain” | Hacker News Reader

$20 to Mint Your Prayers on “The Blockchain”

eternalprayer.org

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Matthew 6 - what a great work

https://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/MATT+....

It's been awhile since I've seen this passage. I forgot how much of the bible is a diss track on the pagans.

> Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

I find this bit in particular pretty humorous because it makes it sound like god's voicemail inbox is overflowing and he doesn't have time for your shit.

The point is that God is a Father - like a dad one has a great relationship with. No one with a good relationship with their dad spins a request wheel at him, or says the same thing 100 times in a row to him. If you ever did so, there's something wrong in your relationship with your dad -- same with God.

So in that respect, a Christian's relationship with God ought to me markedly different from how many other religions relate to the gods they worship.

> No one with a good relationship with their dad spins a request wheel at him...

This comment makes me think you've never had a toddler, much less a teen.

The point being: you're supposed to grow up eventually.

> The point is that God is a Father - like a dad one has a great relationship with.

Tell that to Job. Whose "Father" tortured him to win a bet.

The author of Job and the authors of Matthew and Luke obviously disagree about what kind of relationship humanity supposedly has with God. I think it's important to see the Bible as a collection of books from different times and places, each with their own rhetorical goals.

> I think it's important to see the Bible as a collection of books from different times and places, each with their own rhetorical goals.

And yet that's not how the bible is taught at a vast majority of churches. "The bible is the word of God. Jesus changed his relationship with us, which is why his behavior is different between the old and new Testament. End of discussion."

I still recall the lecture I got when I once questioned whether Genesis was an allegory for the creation of the universe over billions of years. "No, it was 7 days, exactly as the bible says."

I mean, that’s how it’s taught in a majority of evangelical churches, which is what I gather you mean. St. Augustine was pretty clear that it wasn’t a literal seven days, and Pope Pius XII in Humani generis accepted that human evolution was a thing. So, granting the numerical superiority of the Catholic tradition, not a majority of churches.

Ironically (or not) I was lectured by a Catholic. So, regardless of how the Saints and Popes tell it, if it goes against the local priest's beliefs, it's not going to be reflected in the church.

The evidence is plentiful too: look at how the individual churches have taken Pope Benedict's tolerance of previously taboo individuals (homosexuals, for example). Something else I get to hear about at holiday parties.

Yeah, that’s about right, unfortunately. Your average local priest may not wish to (or does not wish to) know about the broader sweep of tradition. So, whatever he believes becomes the version of the tradition you encounter. I say all of this as an Anglican priest, so I’m seriously sorry that’s been your experience. Generally one hopes the Catholics (at least their clergy) are at least a bit more familiar with their own teachings than the evangelical fundamentalists.

I don't see any disagreement. The Bible's theme throughout is that God's people should expect and ensure suffering. God "did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all" (from Romans 8) -- and he doesn't spare us either from suffering. "It was the Will of the Lord to crush him [messiah]." (From Isaiah 53)

Christians "who suffer according to God's will should entrust themselves to their faithful creator while continuing to do good." (from 1 Peter 4)

"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." (from Romans 8)

"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning the shame, and sat down at the right hand of God" (from Hebrews 12)

So Job, like Jesus himself, serves as an example of a faithful son who endured suffering and after a short while was restored.

* expect and endure suffering

The lord of the Hebrew Bible was clearly running on the testnet, and should not have been used for actual transactions.

Or an pretty horrible character, giving horrible advice... Generally not a great moral beacon, with all things done and all things advocated like bashing children against rocks and so on... Then again, what can you expect from ancient tribal religion...

And then when God explains himself, he goes off on a tangent about this awesome dragon OC of his and how badass it is.

God wasn't the one doing the torturing. Yes, you could debate whether an omnipotent God is actually responsible for every single thing that happens given He can intervene. But I don't think anybody who takes Job literally simultaneously believes that God is the one doing the torturing.

"I'm sorry, son. Of course I have the power to stop all these bad things from happening to you (I'm God, duh), but you see I have this bet going with the serpent about how you'll react to having terrible things happen to you, so no."

I'd like to believe it's a generally accepted truth that if you have the knowledge that something really, really bad's happening (by way of Job praying, the topic of this entire thread), the power to do something about it, and have been doing things about it before, and yet refuse because of a wager, YTA.

In such a situation, whether it's God or the world doing the torture is kinda splitting hairs.

>anybody who takes Job literally

“My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”[0]

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/816617-my-point-once-again-...

Even symbolically, Job is one dark tale. The distance faith will carry someone is tremendous because they believe that the bad things happening to them happen for a reason. And even if it's a bad reason, there's still the promise of rewards and redemption afterwards.

> It's been awhile since I've seen this passage. I forgot how much of the bible is a diss track on the pagans.

Ideal marketing is both puffing your product and dissing the competition. The old testament is really full of the latter...the new testament has less.

> > Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

So why pray at all?

>So why pray at all?

so that you learn what you need, too.

and, ultimately, to say "thanks".

(same question asked differently: "why meditate?" "why mindfulness?")

Yeah, things get a bit weird when you make your God omniscient. Even though I know exactly what you need and whether or not you'll pray for it, you still need to pray for what you need, but you might or might not get it based on my whim (even though I know my answer before you ever identify your need), whether or not you pray.

I've thought about this specific question a lot and I think it comes down to humility. Being in a place of needing something (and acknowledging that fact) is the opposite of pride. Pride is something the Bible mentions many times as something detrimental: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18

Why are you here? You’re spreading hate because you don’t believe. It’s fine if you don’t believe, but you have to spread your hate to the rest of us? Could you not have simply moved passed this post?

> because you don’t believe

Seems like a strong assertion to make based on a short comment by someone who based their statement on having read the gospels and a good chunk of the Old Testament.

And what’s with the mention of hate? I don’t see any in the comment. And sure, there’s plenty of it in the Old Testament but the New Testament doesn’t even want you to hate the Romans.

Was the Apostle Thomas not a believer? Did he preach hate?

The beam might be in your eye, tekknik.

Oh so you’re religious then?

What’s with the “marketing” thing? Can that be taken as hateful or not?

I see billboards and bus bench signs encouraging people to chose this or that religious experience. Tv ads for people to pay for this or that religious knickknack. Are they all hate speech? Jesus famously wasn’t a fan.

I was responding in my comment to a previous comment which was correctly describing various parts of the old testament in which their god assails all those other gods, says that you have to worship him first, talks about his wrath and jealousy and the risks if you don’t stick him first. Not to mention the dissing of other tribes, and witches, and other undesirables. All that stuff is a pretty clear marketing message.

There are of course other messages as well, but the original commenter, and my response, referred to the marketing sections.

As for being religious: is there a constraint on who is allowed to read the texts and or interpret them? Are adherents of only certain religions permitted to read them?

Since this seems to be hard for you Ill make it easy. Your argument was made in bad faith. It’s extremely easy to tell from the words you wrote that you hate religion. In all other cases in society, if you don’t agree with something you just keep your mouth shut and move on.

As a Catholic, your hour of prayer is supposed to be reserved for glorying God, giving thanks and showing respect. It's not an hour spent with a list of "requests" , this is not what religious people do.

There can be moments of personal intentions (both during vigils and prayers) but most of the time people offer them for health and well being of others. We are not supposed to really care much about earthly possessions as our hearts should belong to God first and our neighbors second (Matthew 22:36-40).

Amen

Move along, heretic! We follow Al Franken's Supply Side Jesus around these parts. Supply Side Jesus approves of Megachurches and Bitcoin.

https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp

Persuant to the canon of my HN username, I am obligated to inform you that it is in fact you who are the heretic, and a representative from Reverend Bob's Pearly Gates will be along shortly with a small vial of suspicious red liquid we seriously urge you to consider snorting up your left nostri ah me le le ne le le ne me ne ne eh me me me

I believe you're reading Bible2.0 - it's ripe for decentralisation. The new one has improvements, such as "Our father, who art in blockchain, hallowed be thine nonfungible token. Thy singularity come, thy Ðapp contract executed on earth as it is in blockchain." See? Much nicer.

Seriously though, you do have to wonder who it is they think they're praying to. Also, if the love of money is the root of all evil, is the love of blockchain the root of all foolishness?

Every good deed and every sin shall be committed eternally into an immutable ledger, unless someone performs the greatest sin of all... a 51% attack.

> And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.

It's interesting to me that Christians never seem to consider praying standing in churches where they can be seen by others as a violation. They invented a new word (at least in English) for their places of worship, to allow public prayer on a technicality.

the advice here, i think, has more to do with intent and focus, not a checklist of things to do and not do.

eugene peterson’s translation of Matthew 6:6 is

“ Here’s what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won’t be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.”

and that’s at least within the realm of possible for the patterns of communal worship that have come after. I’m inclined to say most of “a church service” isn’t exactly prayer, either.

With many churches, being seen as pious is clearly part of the point. Someone missing Sunday service will be gossiped about. Not wearing your "Sunday Best" clothing will be gossiped about. Many churches I've encountered are very much social signalling between the members, and I've never seen one that restricts itself to a sermon and doesn't include any prayer. They also all have some sort of ritualized action to show that you're praying. Everyone bows their head, or (for Catholics) kneels, or puts their hands together, or some similar "see how I pray" signal.

I think we've reached that point (which I know has a name) where I honestly can't tell if this is a satirical gag or genuine.

I'm really hoping someone here jumps up and takes credit for it as a prank.

Poe’s law

Meh. That happened a long time ago.

Seriously. I thought it was satire for sure but I started the checkout process just to be sure and it seemed real.

It seems to be a "just kidding... unless you want to" situation

Especially considering that there's a surprisingly on-the-nose analog in The Handmaid's Tale. I can't find the actual passage, so I might be mangling the details, but from what I recall there were printing companies that pivoted to printing prayers... only for the paper to be immediately recycled and used for the next order. The point of paying for it was basically to signal that one was pious and/or wealthy enough to not care about the waste.

Your recall looks to be pretty good ;)

"At the corner is the store known as Soul Scrolls. It’s a franchise: there are Soul Scrolls in every city centre, in every suburb, or so they say. [...] Ordering prayers from Soul Scrolls is supposed to be a sign of piety and faithfulness to the regime, so of course the Commanders’ Wives do it a lot. It helps their husbands’ careers. [...] The machines talk as they print out the prayers; if you like, you can go inside and listen to them, the toneless metallic voices repeating the same thing over and over. Once the prayers have been printed out and said, the paper rolls back through another slot and is recycled into fresh paper again."

Side note: I found the quote by searching my comment history¹ and then picking up the book, because that is faster than finding the text in the book without any hints. I really can't decide if that is good thing or not. Like some super weak version of Chiang's Remem²

¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25672286

² https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truth_of_Fact,_the_Truth...

Ted Chiang is a great writer, while not being showy. I like his writing for how easy he makes it seem to write compelling ideas into narratives. I found his short story collection Stories of Your Life and Others quite a good intro to his oeuvre. I quite liked the film Arrival, which is based on the title work of the collection.

I should read more of his work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stories_of_Your_Life_and_Other...

That book was surprisingly accurate in many details, but grossly inaccurate in who the perpetrators were. For instance, I think that analog better parodies the modern day virtue signalling than it does people praying.

Moneygrab, as is all that uses blockchain.

This is quite redundant, because NFT's are already a pure religious belief. They should all be 100% tax exempt for this reason.

And you can't even pay with crypto??

https://i.imgur.com/PasTfw9.png

The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.

The support for pay-over-time is a nice touch. Praise be Him.

But if the blockchain is truly append-only, what stops me from paying the first payment and then disappearing? Even if I pay it all upfront, what if I charge back?

Maybe it's like most other NFTs and is just a pointer to the server where the actual data is stored? If you don't pay, they can just change the prayer to "Jesus, please ignore this prayer" or something.

You think that’s how it works? One person can tell Jesus/God to ignore another’s prayers?

That depends on how much they've donated to their Megachurch pastor recently. If you get a monthly subscription of $29.99, your prayers go to the top of the queue. For gold tier $79.99 subscription, you get to submit a list of people whose prayers you want ignored.

Yea there’s gullible religious people, just like there’s gullible non-religious people. If you’ve actually read scripture these types of churches are called out. No where in the bible does it say you must pay to be heard.

Isn’t that exactly what some Christian sects do when they proclaim their way is the only way (i.e. “god, don’t listen to them listen to us!” ). Perhaps Islam does this to, but I’m no expert on Islam.

I think you got that twisted. Everybody has the idea that their religion is the only correct one, but not all religions have the same god. So if they’re not praying to the same god, how can they tell that god to listen to them but not the others?

>You think that’s how it works? One person can tell Jesus/God to ignore another’s prayers?

Sure. People can tell Jesus/God whatever they want to.

And you think He listens?

I think he listens exactly as much as he did to the original prayer.

Thou shalt not submit chargebacks

It seems you can't pay with cryptocurrencies; in order to use the pay later thing you need to be paying with a credit card. The pay later service is provided by a 3rd party, and usually they just give the full amount (minus whatever % they charge for the service) to the merchant right after the purchase.

If their attempts to charge your credit card fail then the pay later company can use the usual tactics to get you to pay loans, since they require some of your personal information when setting up the payment: sending threatening messages, adding a bad mark to your credit report, etc.

Missed opportunity for a "pray as you go" or "monthly prayment plan" joke, but I agree.

Beautiful, bravo.

Also, looking at the way their payment and submission system works, it is quite literally "buy now, pray later"

As a Christian, I’m both annoyed at someone creating this and the people who will inevitably fall for it.

Why would they "inevitably fail"? I doubt this has any significant operating costs: as long as one person pays for this joke of a product, they've succeeded about as much as they possibly can. The only remaining question is how long they'll keep the site online.

fall, not fail

Thank you. I didn’t quite understand what they were driving at with their comment and now I see that they misread what I wrote.

Yeah, my bad. I was reading it on my phone, didn't quite notice the spelling. That's what I get for drinking coffee after 3pm :p

If the number of people who call themselves Christians yet fall for charlatan televangelists is any indication, there will be people who fall for something like this too.

Oddly specific.

Seems like the most direct way to send money to god (God? please don't eat me) so far.

Just send ether to the genesis address 0x0. God only knows the private key.

Can we just flag those scams and move on now? Why does HN allow so much clear spam if it happens to have the word blockchain involved?

The angel from Revelation 8:3 can grab these and add them to his censor which will probably be on the blockchain by then.

Phfft...I can get my name on a rice grain for far less. Plus they will even make a pendant out of it.

ha! this reminds me of the M25 in Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's "Good Omens" novel... where he altered the design of the highway so that it forms the shape of a sigil in some black language to say "Hail the Great Beast, Devourer of worlds".

This is such an amazing art piece. Shopify as a medium, what a world.

I’m currently raising a seed round for blockchain indulgences.

Yes! We finally found a good use for the blockchain.

Unbelievable, someone managed to connect two of the most useless things on the planet: religion and NFTs. That seems straight out of an Onion article.

Wtf

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