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Comment by jnwatson | Hacker News Reader

This incident reinforces the rule never to use your debit card for credit card transactions.

Ever, never, never use your debit card where credit card can be used in its place.

The mechanisms for restoring the charge on your credit card are much stronger than on your debit card. And a credit card is a FUTURE charge, so you have time to fix the problem. Whereas a debit card is your CURRENT money, so it's just gone unless you get it back.

I do not understand why people use debit cards linked to their actual bank account out in the world. Paying bills securely through the utility is the only thing we use that for.

Agreed. I almost never use my debit card. And now, my wife doesn't either. Though her card got skimmed at an ATM, not during a debit card transaction, so this advice doesn't work. Now she just doesn't ever use ATMs. For better or worse, we now keep a few grand in the safe at home and pull from that for the occasional cash need. When I need to replenish that, I walk into the bank and take it out the old fashioned way.

It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you...

I have stopped using credit cards for two reasons:

1. My debit cards allow me to directly import transactions into my personal accounting software while my credit cards don’t; and

2. when I shop online, my debit cards allow me to use them as a 2nd factor (using a USB card reader) while my credit cards require either an iOS or Android device for 2FA.

You’re right in that a credit card is a future charge and debit isn’t. But are debit cards really so much more insecure? What threat model do you have in mind?

If your credit card is compromised, you make a phone call and maybe can't use it for a few days.

If your debit card gets compromised, your rent check bounces.

Plus, frankly, banks are generally more protective of THIER money than YOUR money.

> If your debit card gets compromised, your rent check bounces.

I guess that depends on the bank and the country you live in.

Credit card transactions are much easier to reverse. For example, I went to a restaurant and a few days later I noticed they double charged the bill. I called the restaurant, they wouldn't fix the issue, so I called the credit card company and it was quickly reversed. That doesn't happen with a debit card.

Credit cards also come with all sorts of benefits. You can easily get 1-2% off all purchases through cash-back or gift card rewards. You can get free insurance with car rentals. Many cards also offer an extra one year warranty on most purchases, so if you paid for your laptop or phone with your credit card and it dies just outside of the manufacturer warranty, you might still be covered.

> That doesn't happen with a debit card.

Citation needed.

The scenario you described will absolutely fall under most card networks' transaction dispute rules. In day-to-day spending a debit card is just as safe as a credit card when it comes to fraud or malicious merchants.

The only time a credit card will be better is grey areas where a card network dispute doesn't succeed, in which case the law in most countries forces the credit card provider to eat the loss. In some of those cases, the reason why a credit card chargeback succeeds is not necessarily because you are right (if you were, the dispute process would've succeeded anyway) but because the amount is too low for the issuer to care so they just eat it to not have to investigate and/or litigate the issue.

There’s no reason to want your credit card to have 2FA. It’s not your money, so the only point is to annoy you when you’re spending someone else’s money.

Well, or to use it with sites that require 3D Secure, but that’s still something to help the merchant not you.

As if it was my choice.

EU-wide regulation requires all banks to force 2FA onto their customers for logging into their accounts.

>I do not understand why people use debit cards linked to their actual bank account out in the world.

Because this advice is USA only. All of my credit cards (well... two) are linked to the bank account and I don't even think there's a way to get a credit card without bank connection.

There is, but often it cost extra and we at least don't have the whole cashback system to cover those. Though the fees for merchants are lower so the prices should be too.

100%. The account linked to my debit card is empty unless I want to make an immediate withdrawal at an ATM. This being 2022, I can transfer whatever funds are necessary into the account in a minute or two using an app on my phone. I also have a separate checking account for linking to external services like Cash App, Venmo, or third-party bill pay systems. Again, the account remains permanently empty except for the brief window where I'm moving money between these services or paying a bill.

Given how quick and painless it is to transfer money between accounts, leaving substantial amounts of money in accounts linked with mechanisms that can remove that money is insane to me.

Absolutely do not use your debit card ... well, anywhere if you can help it.

(Apologies, saw the wrong parent comment) How many utilities, credit card companies require a checking account for autopay? How many times have you thrown out an old checkbook that contains routing and account numbers on a carbon copy pages?

Bank accounts are not especially secure, we mostly hope to limit the risk/reward calculation for hacking them and basic security controls.

> How many utilities, credit card companies require a checking account for autopay?

In my experience, this is getting better! I now have all but one of my bills being paid by my credit card. Used to be that the utility companies made you pay extra and use a third party service if you wanted to use your credit card.

Not all, though. Verizon, for example, will let you pay with a credit card, but they give a substantial discount if you use a debit card instead. For obvious reasons. I hope that does not become normal. I'm used to Verizon being scummy, I hope it doesn't become the default behavior for the other utilities I pay for.

The US needs an automatic bill payment system with strong guarantees.

In Britain, most people¹ pay bills (electricity, water, phone, internet, insurance, car loan, credit card etc) by "Direct Debit"². (Most European countries have a similar system with similar guarantees, but this one is described in English.)

If anything should go wrong, the bank must fix it. There's a list of direct debits in the bank's interface, and they can be cancelled/suspended with one click (or by phoning or going to the bank).

It isn't perfect (see 3 from two weeks ago) but that sort of problem is rare enough that it was reported in newspapers.

¹ "Direct Debits are used by nine in ten UK consumers to pay some or all of their regular bills".

² https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/Dir...

³ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/03/tsb-customers...

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