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Comment by maratd | Hacker News Reader

If Google produced an innovative replacement for JavaScript, the world would listen. Instead, based on what they have released so far and your comments, they have released a language that is primarily designed to enhance their own tool-chain, which the rest of the world doesn't use and isn't interested in. We don't use GWT. Apparently, we won't use Dart either.

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they have released a language that is primarily designed to enhance their own tool-chain

You make this sound like its a bad thing, but that's open-source always and forever. Scratch your own itch.

He's not saying it's immoral of Google or anything, just that it doesn't help the rest of the programming world.

This was advertised as a replacement for JavaScript. It turned out to be a replacement for GWT. False advertising. I'm wasting time reading specs and code samples and comments just to figure that out. I don't like being misled or wasting time.

I'm curious what you thought a JavaScript replacement would look like. Apparently you thought it /wouldn't/ look like GWT.

Python has a great, clean, compact and expressive syntax and a lot of syntactic sugar. Erlang does concurrency and error handling well. A mix of the two would be a great language to work with.

JavaScript - the ugly + OO + update to the standard library. That's it. Essentially what frameworks like MooTools try to make it into.

Ah. I think I was getting caught up in the idea that a "replacement" was something completely different and not an evolution change in JavaScript. But it's all just a matter of terminology at that point.

A lot of people use GWT for large web applications instead of JS, precisely for the reasons Dart was created, we just don't go brag about it. The biggest problem with GWT was how slow the toolchain was, and this is adressed with Dart by having a native VM in Chrome.

Out of curiosity, do you know of any notable non-Google sites using GWT? I see a few here, though none seem to be particularly large web apps - that I can tell, at least.

http://gwtgallery.appspot.com/

http://www.gwtsite.com/whos-using-gwt/

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/aqsxq/does_anyo...

http://www.quora.com/What-web-applications-use-Google-Web-To...

Given that its supported by Sencha (ExtGWT), and Spring, and IntelliJ, you can probably guess that the vast majority of GWT users are in enterprise environments. :) AngryBirds uses GWT. You actually don't see many people writing very large Web apps outside of Google precisely because most organizations didn't have the resources to produce something like Closure or GWT. Duplicating GMail with no tooling using basic JS is quite a tall order.

Many new Google services these days use GWT, like Google Flights, Hotels, the new YouTube editor, Google Offers, etc. AdWords is written in GWT too and is quite large (millions of lines)

One of the problems Dart hopes to solve is to have a large codebase(apps easily into the millions of lines of code) that is toolable, and statically optimizable. Javascript is particularly poor at this.

The Closure Compiler was actually invented by the Google Mail and Calendar teams as a way to wrangle Javascript and tame it's suckier bits to enable sane development of large apps.

I've used GWT. It's no cure all, but it has its place and time. It's too early to judge Dart.

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