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Comment by tomatowurst | Hacker News Reader

I see many learjets on sale, do you think its safe to purchase a jet made in the late 90s, early 00s? seems to be selling at huge discounts.

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This is typically because they have timed out engines, are due for major inspections, or require expensive mandatory modifications such as RVSM or hushkits. That said, I know someone who purchased an original Lear 24 in the low 6 figures that needed everything. He spent more than 1M, but less than 2M on overhauled and hushkitted engines, overhauling and refinishing the airframe, major avionics update including ADS-B and RVSM, and other upgrades, and now had a machine that can FAR outperform an Eclipse 550 at lower cost. https://www.newunitedgoderich.com/projects/bombardier-learje...

oh wow that thing is made in the 1966!!!! that's absolutely insane

I guess the overhaul is roughly the same regardless of the year? There's a 1981 learjet that is roughly 600k and I see another one from 1994 at 700k. I guess you would just discount this as the airframe price?

so cool that somebody out there has done this.

I was a kid in the 90s Los Angeles, and being somewhat familiar with jets from kids books and MSFS, is it me or does anyone else seem to remember the Learjets in the air at the time being the absolutely loudest sound they've ever heard?

Learjet 23/24/25 models have a reputation for being very loud and very thirsty for fuel.

Some of the Lear models don’t meet noise regulations and need modifications to continue to be used.

But in general, older aircraft are safe. (For years, I flew a 1967 C182 piston single.)

Thirsty jets are selling at a discount in times when oil is expensive. Pre-COVID, you could buy an airworthy Cessna Citation for basically the value of the remaining time on the engines. They got to be worth more after that for a couple of reasons, but the cost of buying the airplane is not the last of your spending in the airplane world and especially not in the jet world.

I could easily afford to buy a clapped-out legacy Citation. I could not afford to feed and maintain a legacy Citation. It might be similar to horses in that regard, just with extra zeroes.

It's the same with cars :)

All the people I know who looked in the classifieds and bought themselves a supercar for peanuts then found they needed some small component replaced after a couple of thousand miles, which cost half as much as the car did.

Nice thing is you can usually (but not always) DIY yourself to a cheap fix :)

A properly maintained aircraft is safe at any age. However, some aircraft have fatigue life limits on either the airframe as a whole or parts that are cost-prohibitive to replace on an old aircraft, such as wing spars. Talk to your (future) mechanic, who can look up ADs (airworthiness directives) and other limitations.

Do make sure you look into operating costs (maintenance, insurance, fuel, etc -- and some of these are fixed costs even if the aircraft hardly flies at all) before you buy something!

/me looks at B-52, currently planned to be used until they're 100...

... thanks to a basically unlimited budget for maintenance.

If the aircraft gets old enough it ends up like the Learjet of Theseus

Pretty much all airplanes fit that description. I guess not literally since the core fuselage is usually continuous but just about every moving part.

A jet is a hole in the air you throw money into.

The purchase price is just the start.

This reminds me of a statement about yachting, roughly: if you want a cheaper hobby, you could always learn to enjoy burning $100 bills.

I heard it as: "If you're considering buying a boat, step into the shower, turn the water on, and stuff $100 bills down the drain while you get drenched. Same experience."

You can buy a seaplane and get the worst of all worlds.

damn this thread single handedly destroyed all three of my dreams: owning a early 00 private jet, a 90s seaplane and 80s yacht. ALL of which were very much the focus of my day dreams!

"If it flies, floats or fornicates, rent it."

As the saying goes, "the most expensive way to travel in discomfort."

Yachting is only expensive if you make it expensive; there are plenty of sea-hippies sailing around spending almost nothing.

As a former sailor, burning $100 bills had the advantage of not making you sea sick.

[seek the advice of an expert not internet commenters when it comes to this stuff]

From a safety standpoint, age isn’t your problem - it’s whether the aircraft has been properly maintained.

As to price, they’re cheap because they 1) have meaningful deferred maintenance liabilities (inspections, engines) 2) have high variable operating costs (fuel inefficient) 3) need upgrades (avionics, interiors) 4) maintenance volatility (could be problem free or have a $300k issue tomorrow / no maintenance service plan)

Proper maintenance and periodic inspections lead to the eventual replacement of all parts before their failure sans the airframe, when it is typically cheaper to buy a new aircraft.

You could be seeing such an airplane for sale.

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