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Comment by lastofthemojito | Hacker News Reader

Irritatingly imprecise wording on that page:

> Here at Martin-Baker, we run an exclusive club that unifies all pilots whose lives we’ve helped save: life membership of the Ejection Tie Club is confined solely to those who have emergency ejected from an aircraft using a Martin-Baker ejection seat, which has thereby saved their life.

Does that mean you need to be a pilot to be a member of the club? Or does being a co-pilot or passenger qualify? And if you're testing the ejection seat (wittingly or unwittingly as in the case of this article) in a healthy airplane, such that it isn't a life-saving technique, do you still qualify?

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A co-pilot is still a pilot, and nobody willingly ejects from a healthy aircraft.

Ejecting can still go wrong, and subjects your body to huge compressive forces - it's not uncommon to fracture your spine.

Interesting point about non pilot crew though - although there must be a fairly limited number of fast jets that have mission crew with ejector seats. Perhaps a couple of US bombers?

Wasn't there a plane (thinking bomber with you) that ejected down from the aircraft so that the minimum altitude was super important?

B52 ejects in all directions, some up, some down ha.

Early F-104 Starfighters had a downward-firing ejection seat [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Eje...

The Soviet Tu-22 (a bomber) also did this. (Though not the Tu-22M, which is basically a different plane.)

http://www.airforce.ru/aircraft/miscellaneous/ejectionseats/...

Super convenient - climb a ladder, strap in and then tech guys winch you up with a hand crank (on first models).

Altitude less than 1500 ft and you're dead. G-load above a threshold and its rails jam, so you're not going anywhere. 1950s tech that flew into 1990s.

B52 has entered the chat of flying fossils.

The Avro Vulcan had two ejection seats, for the pilot and co-pilot, and nothing for the three other crew members. They had a door and were expected to bail out, which after they switched to flying low level under enemy radar wasn't really possible. Predictably this lead to several tragedies. https://hackaday.com/2021/01/11/the-v-bomber-ejector-seat-co... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Vulcan

> subjects your body to huge compressive forces - it's not uncommon to fracture your spine.

I've heard that military pilots are retired from flying after the second ejection (regardless of the reason for it) due to this spinal injury concern. It must be one hell of a kick in the ass.

Back in the 1950s and 60s my dad was a parachute training instructor for the RAF. As well as teach others how to safely jump out of planes, he also basically did QA for ejector seats.

His service ended when one such seat really wasn’t ready for humans. It totally fucked his back up — he didn’t become wheelchair bound, but was told to never lift anything heavier than a cup of tea for the rest of his life. Registered disabled from his mid-30s. Ejector seats were, and I assume still are, no joke.

Ejection seats also got a lot more powerful over time. The gold standard now are 0/0 seats, so called because they can be used at 0 altitude and 0 speed. Earlier seats had speed and/or altitude requirements.

Presumably this means that they kick you harder too, with all such subsequent effects.

Many early ejection seats used explosive charges instead of rocket motors. These were less powerful overall (didn't throw pilots as far from the plane) but I suspect they might have kicked a lot harder in the instant of ignition.

Interesting... it sounds familiar with various videos of ejection over time, but I never realised this changes the force dynamics!

Modern ejection seats have a smoother acceleration curve than the early ones.

> nobody willingly ejects from a healthy aircraft.

You'd think so, but sadly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29729307

Technically, that’s a bail-out. Has somewhat fewer rockets and high-g forces than an ejection seat.

> Interesting point about non pilot crew though - although there must be a fairly limited number of fast jets that have mission crew with ejector seats.

I mean you're reading an article about one, aren't you? Also the Panavia Tornado. F-15E, etc.

no, but you have bail out volontarily and in a dangerous situation, the question has already been put to the manufacturer: no tie for the unluky retired.

Voluntarily leaving your healthy plane will get your license revoked by the FAA as we've recently seen happen.

Where?

That odd story a couple months ago where some guy seemingly crashed his plane deliberately for tiktok clout?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31104691

And before,

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29729307

ahh, thank you

A YouTuber purposely crashed his plane in California, FAA says: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31104691

Only if you’re the pilot.

That is terrible PR. In any case, who knows what would have happened if he’d stayed on board, considering that nobody seemed to care about the limits the doctor set?

On the other hand, he probably does not want a reminder of his “adventure”.

>In any case, who knows what would have happened if he’d stayed on board, considering that nobody seemed to care about the limits the doctor set?

He would've been much safer, though maybe he would've passed out (which I fully recognize as an unpleasant experience.) Ejecting from a jet would be a very hazardous day for any job.

Yeah you're right. Still terrible PR. It just sounds petty.

Given the spirit of the club I bet he got a tie.

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