Pet Airways
petairways.com
petairways.com
(I fly cats for adoption from PR to ATL, MIA, FLL, TPA sometimes; it's interesting traveling with them in the cabin. Usually they are very young kittens and very quiet the whole time.)
Can you expand on this a bit?
Edit: did a bit of researched and found the answer: https://www.travelandleisure.com/trip-ideas/pet-friendly-tra...
Meanwhile, on the other side of anecdote land, people in the last thread were talking about deaths, or hearing of pets going deaf.
So for those of you looking to actually travel with your pets, I actually launched my startup, Avvinue, that helps you search and book pet-friendly flights, hotels and more. It captures IATA airline pet policy data and country pet import requirements so that you book the exact flight that your pet is allowed on. No more calling the airlines, researching for hours only to find out that your pet can't fly.
You can search flights now here: www.avvinue.com and we're expanding our core team after raising a pre-seed round, so feel free to send a message on our website if you're interested.
Anything short of that would be rolling the dice, and the best outcome would still be a horrible experience for the pet.
Edit: even on companies with “pet friendly” adjustments. Looking at how they treat special luggage and other “no really, I’ll pay for it so treat it nice” cargo, I wouldn’t trust major airline companies to be consistently good with animals.
The flight date goes anywhere from 2021 to 2022 the call to action on mobile goes to a unreachable Dev site with a sketchy wedding/rsvp URL and there's absolutely no useful information about coverage
Also, pawsenger
I'd suggest borrowing a car from a friend or renting one for a couple of days; and have one of you stay with the pet in the new place while the other drives the car back.
Haven't yet shipped my dogs as I'm still doing some research, but that site has helped having a place to start the research.
https://blog.privatefly.com/air-horse-one-a-private-jet-for-...
Edit: Yes I mean what perardi shares below, it’s not far off what I imagine traveling in cargo hold is like for pets.
https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/tje.5a9.myftpuplo...
It’s actually better if you view the full-resolution version—looks far less like a prison. Poor choice of on-camera flash, and poor choice of moping dog.
Depends. Unaccompanied animals are transported in the cargo hold, though I believe some care is taken (they're not just tossed in like luggage). Small animals can be taken with you if they will fit under the seat, on some airlines.
The cargo hold is too hot on the ground, too cold in the air, pitch-black, and poorly-ventilated. They're also left alone and unmonitored.
In any case, them being on the seats (in carrier) rather than under them, helped a ton. The cats aren't as freaked out.
[1] https://sturdiproducts.com/products/folding-water-tight-boxe...
[2] https://sturdiproducts.com/products/folding-water-tight-boxe...
Glad I could help with the info. Cheers.
The plane they show (presumably their best) is a turboprop. That's shorter range and slower than a jet. If you're flying somewhere and planning to drop your pet off when you get to the airport, even if you align departure times well, you might be waiting a couple hours for your pet to arrive on the other side.
While they appear to have a presence in the airport terminal (or strongly imply they do), I suspect there are still different logistics paths in loading and unloading the pets. Do they have to use cargo terminals?
Are there layovers on the pet's flight? On yours? What happens if one of the planes is delayed or the flight is completely canceled? There's not likely to be another Pet Airways plane sitting there as backup.
I can't imagine this would work at all without frequent traumatic experiences for the pets, where owners are separated for days at a time due to logistics breakdowns.
I used Pet Airways years ago before it first shut down and they flew out of regional airports, so it’s unlikely you’d fly out of the same airport.
Back then, you'd drop your pet off at one airport and they’d be at the destination the next day. They only had a few airports they flew in and out of.
I have a 50-pound dog and am just resigned to taking a road trip with him or leaving him with friends when I have to travel.
I wish at least one commercial airline would adopt a "pet-friendly" policy and just allow people to purchase an extra seat for their dog. My dog would be happy to take the middle seat between me and my girlfriend, would stay out of the way of others, and I'd pay a significant amount of money if this were an option.
None of that is unreasonable. I have nothing against dogs and dog owners but too many owners these days seem oblivious to the fact that many other people would prefer not to be forced to share space with animals.
Would be nice if airlines would make it just as easy to buy some more space for my pet. Pay more to buy the row out, pay more to get on a limited selection of "pet friendly" flights, probably other ideas could work too...
I see people bring crying babies into first class all the time. I would dispute that most people really have an option to avoid "nuisance" contact with other people. (Not an option for me either way, I have never had a first class seat.)
The comfort of other humans is more important than anyone’s selfish desire to drag their pet to each and every place they happen to go.
The OP was not talking about small pets, which are already allowed. They're talking about buying a separate seat for a large dog. It is utterly insane to expect anyone to spend a cross-country flight with an 80lb Labrador next to them slobbering all over them.
if only.
I once made the mistake of staying in a 'pet friendly' section of a hotel. The smell alone was enough to make me check for that next time.
It might be a terrible idea, but I've both heard and had worse!
Hooters tried something similar but arguably more niche back in the 2000s.
None of that is unreasonable… is it? That's why I don't fly with my dog (in large part out of concern of their well-being), but maybe airlines should also consider not allowing toddlers on the plane if these things are the concern?
Where I live people bring the dogs into the grocery store (carrying them, putting them in the cart, or just walking on a leash.... and no, they aren't all service dogs) and I've never seen a problem.
Personally I think you should be able to get a special collar or jacket for them that says they have passed a test that they are well enough trained for such things etc.
I agree with your overall point - but I doubt this would be effective. Supposedly we already have such a system for service animals, but there's been enough shenanigans around that to make me cautious of this specific plan.
What are the shenanigans you are aware of with service dogs? Badly behaved dogs, or just people that lie about why they need a dog? My suggested plan would make such lying unnecessary since all you need to do is prove the dog can pass a behavior test, it has nothing to do with whether you supposedly need the emotional support animal. (and of course, this doesn't give anyone the right to bring the dog in a store or in a plane or whatever, unless the business wants to allow it)
The problem with "service" dogs is that you can buy a vest on Amazon for $25[0] without that dog having been trained to do anything in particular. Many people (in San Francisco especially; I'm surprised you haven't seen this) just put these on their dog and claim that they can bring the dog into restaurants (where non-service animals are specifically banned by health code).
The whole "emotional support animal" thing has been abused like crazy by people who just feel entitled to bring their pet anywhere they want, regardless of the law, or even just the policy of a particular establishment. Generally it's fairly legally perilous for a business owner to attempt to ascertain if the animal is really a service animal that's been properly trained to do tasks for their human, so they often feel stuck and unable to turn them away.
I like (most) dogs just fine, but I don't want to be seated indoors in a restaurant one table over from one, even if they're well-behaved. I'm fairly allergic to some breeds, and I don't want to spend my meal with itchy eyes and a stuffy nose. And I certainly don't want random pets walking around grocery stores, sniffing the produce and shedding hair on everything. Actual service animals are trained to handle those situations properly and not be a nuisance, but your random pet or "emotional support animal" is not.
[0] https://smile.amazon.com/Service-Vest-Hook-Straps-Handle/dp/... for example
But see, I don't care if the person really needs a service dog. Some are for "emotional support", and while I think that is a bit silly, whatever.
What I'm concerned about is badly behaved dogs. I haven't seen that inside stores or restaurants.
I really don't care about whether they are sniffing produce or whatever (not they they seem to do that), if I'm going to get sick from something in a store, most likely it is from a human, since humans tend to host human-infecting germs.
Have you actually ever gotten allergies from a pet in a restaurant? I have cat allergies, but they tend to kick in when I am in someone's home where a cat lives.
Then again, sometimes we just have to suck it up and deal with it, and hope the airline staff can do what they can to separate the animals from the people with allergies as much as possible. While there are certainly some people who bizarrely can't go anywhere without their pet (and I personally don't care if we don't make accommodations for them), but people do legitimately need to travel with their pet sometimes, and we need safe ways to do that. We have two cats, and if we were to move to somewhere far enough away that driving were infeasible, I would want to travel with them in-cabin.
edit: sorry, I meant claiming their dog is a service animal, not any animal
Per this website:
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
And this one:
https://beta.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/
It seems like there is nothing stopping someone from claiming their dog is a service animal.
The DOT website says airlines can ask service animal owners to fill out a couple self attestation forms, and while that puts a little bit of skin in the game for the service animal owner, it does not seem easy to prove fraud.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/united-airlines-changes-policy-...
the peacock didn't get to fly, but before they changed their policy it was $125 for a pet or $0 for a comfort animal, and they hadn't been checking if the animal was vaccinated, obedient, or that there was any medical reason for the person to have the animal (so it seems like you could just declare your pet to be a comfort animal and save $125)
If there’s enough demand to justify the change, then it’s going to turn into a barn yard atmosphere when you’re the only airline that does this and every flight has 20 untrained dogs on board.
If there’s not that much demand, then what do you have to gain by risking the loss of profitable business fliers for some occasional pet flyers?
People want to take their pets with them, but will they foot the bill for that cabin space and put up with everyone else’s pet, and do it in large enough numbers to fill planes?
As far as I understand, pet allergies are not like peanut allergies in that they're not actually lethal (correct me if I'm wrong!) As such, I feel like it's just one of those things that people might just need to deal with when they're part of a shared space much like sitting next to someone with bad body oder, someone chewing loudly, or someone laughing out loud when they're watching their tv. If it's too much of an annoyance maybe one can try to get moved to a different seat?
The argument presented to me in the past (and also the argument in comment I was replying to) is that since some people are allergic to pets or otherwise dislike them, we should completely disallow traveling with pets in a blanket fashion. I'm simply saying that I think that's too extreme and that a middle ground can be found.
If we're going to completely ban pets on airplanes, then we should consider also banning flying with a cold because of immunocompromised people (in fact this is perhaps more warranted given the severity of the situation).
These are things we accept with extreme annoyance, because the alternative is creating a scene or having to deal with the sort of person who's already shown themselves willing to act with disregard for others. It's not something we treat as normal and right behavior that the victim just needs to "get over". Surely you've encountered someone playing loud music on public transportation or something similar; just because no one says anything doesn't mean that we all think it's okay.
I have two cats and love them to death, but if I were to fly with them, I would volunteer to move to a different seat if I found out I was seated near someone with bad allergies.
Can we at least apply this same standard to the other human passengers on a flight then?
Depending on the size, you often can. I do this with my cat. He counts as my carry-on and I don't get any extra carry-on allowance for buying a second seat though. So there are some extra luggage costs involved in addition to the pet fee. But when the flight attendant comes by and says "sir, you need to put the cat underneath", I say "I bought this seat for him and the ticket agent said it would be ok." Hasn't failed me yet.
edit: On Alaska
Not that BA is really great about much else, frankly, I think that their handling of our dog is one of the only nice things I have to say about that airline.
The rules may have changed since, but the flight attendants were loving on my pets...and the 1 hour or so flight time was hugely preferable to farting around on highways.
1) Muzzle 2) Diaper 3) Muzzle
Babies are bad enough, and I'd book in an instant if an airline announced a ban on babies. As for animal? That'd be insane. Keep them on the ground where they belong.
I'd pay for a first-class seat for my 40 lb dog if he was allowed on the plane. But no airlines allow that as far as I know so we generally drive anywhere we travel. At least domestically.
Oh, and to go through security, you have to take a nervous and scared cat out of their carry case in the middle of the security line, walk through the metal detector, and then they have to test both of your hands for residue while still carrying the cat. They will not let you put the cat back before they’ve tested your hands. It makes no sense.
The whole process and fee is basically security and the airlines saying “we’re annoyed, so we’ll make you pay for it with process and fees”.
I always make it a point to notify the passengers next to me that I have a cat in case they are allergic. This again is something the airline does not care about to do themselves, which again makes no sense because it’s probably the single biggest risk for the flight and passengers (someone having an allergic reaction in the middle of a flight).
> There’s no way to pre-register the pet.
At least on Delta, you can. You need to call the airline and arrange it.
> Oh, and to go through security, you have to take a nervous and scared cat out of their carry case in the middle of the security line, walk through the metal detector, and then they have to test both of your hands for residue while still carrying the cat.
I always refuse the normal line and get a private screening. So far I haven't had any issues doing that.
Still, it's a huge pain in the ass.
These are the rules for AlaskaAir (+$100 each way):
For pets traveling in the cabin, hard-sided carriers must have maximum dimensions of 17" x 11" x 7.5" (43 cm x 28 cm x 19 cm) and soft-sided carriers must not exceed 17" x 11" x 9.5" (43 cm x 28 cm x 48 cm). They must be leak-proof, have adequate ventilation, and be lined with absorbent bedding. For pets traveling in the hold, carriers must not exceed the dimensions 30" x 27" x 40" (76 cm x 68 cm x 101 cm). Kennels must be solid, have handles, adequate air ventilation, and a sturdy roof. Pets must be provided with food and water bowls attached to the interior.
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/policies/pets-...
He's a super chill dog that sleeps all the time anyway. Did a trial run of him in the carrier and he just fell asleep.
I flew two cats from oceania to Europe, and the process was jarring; some regulation at the time prevented them even flying together. I remember their panicked howls when I saw them again at the airport, something that hadn't happened with any other mode of transport.
Not to mention the feeling that you're treated like cattle.
And that many people taking care of luggage clearly hate their job and have absolutely zero respect for people's belongings and shall happily throw luggage instead of handling them with care.
Screw flying. I drive (and, yup, it's a problem if crossing an ocean is required).
Yup, but it's also a heck of a lot cheaper, largely due to mechanization, automation, homogenization, and bureaucratization.
If I could pay for child-free transport, I would.
> If they didn't, the human race would end.
> Oh, lastly, families need to travel, and bring their youngest members with them.
My parents reproduced exactly enough to replace themselves, and needed to travel great distances with their children, and still never once used an airplane. This was also very common among my peers growing up. It's ludicrous to suggest that the human race's survival depends on children routinely flying commercial to go on vacations.
True. Its not at all necessary to go on vacations. Required is a strong word, but I would say ability to move freely is somewhat of a basic human right. In the modern world, air travel is important given families are spread out, which necessitates air travel to allow families to see each other. Modern business requirements also often require air travel, and (speaking for myself) I have sometimes brought my daughter on business trips out of necessity or convenience.
I also wasn't saying the human race would end if people didn't go on family vacations, strictly that it would end if people didn't reproduce. so I'm saying, people should try to be ok with reproduction/kids (and therefore kids crying) if they care about the future of the human race.
The right of people with kids to travel with their kids is separate, but I think it follows.
Far short of that, first class on trans-oceanic tend to be kid-free or well-behaved kids at least. Domestic flights, first-class is less pricey and therefore more prone to having kids in it.
It looks like Wheels Up bought them: https://www.deltaprivatejets.com/
I realize that life has a lot of annoyances. Bad drivers, bad bosses, shit friends, and crying babies on flights. I'll never be able to filter them all out so instead I learn to hone my frustration and drive it away. I try to be stoic.
I'm not perfect and I still often get frustrated, but life has immensely improved because of it. You'll never be able to stop the entire world from annoying you, but you can stop your reactions to it.
you should consider as various circumstances arise that maybe they wanted kids without disabilities that cause the screaming, whining, and moaning and while you have to tolerate it they might have to live with it for the rest of their lives.
Maybe I'm just touchy though because I ran into someone with an attitude last week.
I am of the opinion that there are a lot of parents that wanted a baby but didn't really want to raise children.
Like a child that wants a kitten and then gets bored a year later when the kitten has turned into a cat.
Southwest certainly your pet has to be in the small crate. There might be exceptions for service animals though.
the dullards at SFO wanted to put them through the Xray conveyor belt, btw, which was corrected by asking for a supervisor, who damn near backhanded the dopes i first interacted with.
looks, from other comments, they've tightened this since, as there was no "service animal" shenanigans. they're just particularly hairy family members.
> We do not allow animals in the main cabin unless they are assistance animals.
https://help.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/how-to-book-your-pet-o...