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Comment by Pasorrijer | Hacker News Reader

I disagree that it's impossible... Airlines comes to mind as an example where you can start shucking bags, and if you're a go getter probably end up getting an operations job pulling six figures.

That being said, I agree that many corporate mindsets make it seem like this is impossible. A lot of us here at HN are likely going to end up in leadership positions, so a thought for everyone is, if you don't like the idea of "the MBA's" outsourcing everything, or contracting, push back against it.

Even small things like pushing to train someone on your team instead of hiring externally can start to snowball when everyone does it, and you've got more power than you realize to change your company culture.

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A lot of us here at HN are likely going to end up in leadership positions, so a thought for everyone is, if you don't like the idea of "the MBA's" outsourcing everything, or contracting, push back against it.

It's not going to happen. Every time there's a working conditions post on HN like the recent one about Nintendo, half the comments are to the tune of "if you didn't want to get treated like dirt you shouldn't have been a contractor" as if they foolishly pushed the wrong button on the career vending machine.

A lot of people get pushed into contracting because it's the only option. I 100% agree with this.

But it's the only option because leadership makes it that way. And saying it's not going to happen is a good way to make sure it never does. Airplanes ain't gunna fly, you can't never land a rocket standing up, and there's no way you can fit a mobile phone in something smaller than a brief case.

I'm not saying it's easy but if you think it's a problem, you can work to change it. I personally think it's a problem, and now that I'm a Manager I'm doing what I can to try to change. Will I be successful? Maybe not perfectly but already the company is better than it was.

A lot of low level jobs are starting to require BAs, though. And the number of super low level jobs like cleaning that don't is at best constant or maybe even shrinking due to automation.

They're always "BA or equivalent experience" in any job posting I've ever seen.

Jobs like the proverbial mailroom don't exist or exist to nearly the same degree any longer. A lot less physical filing and moving paper around at most companies. And the super low-level jobs are mostly all outsourced to, e.g. janitorial services companies.

> if you don't like the idea of "the MBA's" outsourcing everything, or contracting, push back against it

Having an MBA on your resume is a slight negative for me when I'm on hiring committees for peer positions. It's likely to remain the same when I start hiring reports.

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