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Comment by mensetmanusman | Hacker News Reader

Faecal transplants that happen during birth are one mechanism that the body uses to pass down healthy bacteria to the next generation.

People born with C-section before this was known have higher rates of various digestive diseases. At leading hospitals, faecal transplants are done to c-section babies.

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"Who invented vaginal seeding? Researchers at New York University first wiped (swabbed) babies born by C-section with their mother’s vaginal fluids. They wanted to see if the babies would develop the same microbes that they would have developed after vaginal birth."

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22096-vagin...

tl;dr result?

I work in a hospital and use to consult with labour and delivery units on all things infections. I received a lot of calls about moms seeding their babies themselves. They would often ask the staff for gauze which they would use to seed the babies mouths and eyes. Most would do it one time, but some would have containers they would store some moist gauze and seed the baby over a few days.

We obviously advised against this practice since there are a lot of unknowns, but what moms do with their babies in their room is up to them.

This is really gross to read as I eat my happy hour calamari. Thanks, kind internet stranger

If it's not calamari, well then you shan't complain.

https://gothamist.com/food/is-that-calamari-or-pig-rectum

clicks unfriend

breathing intensifies

screams in Miamian

Conflicted b/c Florida Man

Now that you've digested your calamari (or maybe pork bung) there's a good TAL about it.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/484/doppelgangers

Apparently it tastes slightly off calimari.

I would assume it's washed of fecal matter, and frying kills anything still living on the surface.

Keep in mind that sausage it traditionally made with the linings of pig intestines. So...

At least it isn't gas station sushi.

Obviously someone with FAANG money if you can afford “gas station” sushi. I have to go to the grocery store at 9:00 at night when the discount the sushi left in the refrigerated case

Me too. Except by "refrigerated case" I mean the Dumpster out back.

I mean, your gut will get seeded even if you’re a c-section baby.

There is a reason why households have similar microbiome a over time - despite good hygiene practices bacteria (even fecal bacteria) will be passed from person to person.

There is zero need to do a fecal transplant on a baby that is delivered via c-section, except in some rare case where they get a C. difficile infection or something.

> Faecal transplants that happen during birth are one mechanism that the body uses to pass down healthy bacteria to the next generation.

Fecal transplants do not happen during birth. How would that occur?

However, it is commonly believed that vaginal fluid getting in the mouth of the infant is a mechanism for passing down flora between mother and child.

>How would that occur?

Would you believe that babies can get more than vaginal fluids in their mouths?

EDIT: Pedantically, I know that's not a 'transplant,' but I think GP was trying to 'not be gross.'

> EDIT: Pedantically, I know that's not a 'transplant,'

On the contrary, I think that would generally be considered a fecal transplant. I believe the history of the procedure started with oral administration of the transplanted material, mixed into a chocolate milkshake.

When soon-to-be moms are advised to push hard, the baby it's not the only thing that comes out, usually.

That is true, but there's a difference between coming out and getting into the baby.

Generally excrement is being vacuumed away (or in the past at least a nurse holds a cloth against the anus) for sanitary reasons.

Pardon my ignorance. How does it get passed down in the case of regular births?

I'm not going to provide citation for this, but natural birth usually involves some level of pooping from the mother on the infant.

The organs are far from sterile, whole pathways are very close, there is a lot of pushing beyond control which uses sort of same muscles... it doesn't mean every natural baby is born with big poop on their head (mine weren't), but these transfers do happen. You don't need that many bacteria to make it work, infant's intestines are a sterile place at the beginning so not much competition and food for them starts coming soon.

The digestive system is supposed to be fully sandboxed from the host. Topologically it is as exoneous to your body as your skin and the sandboxing is necessary for your bacteria to not digest yourself. I would appreciate references on permeability mechanisms allowing for bacteria movement inside the body, on healthly humans. I mean there is a digestive system to human blood interface but I doubt it allow bacteria/archae/parasites/shrooms/atypical single celled eukaryotes to cross it. (little known but ~30% of your microbes are not bacteria but archae and withouth those we would not fart)

I believe we're talking about.. em, the exit points.

Natural birth is messy. Infants get covered in all sorts of slime, some of which occurs at "first light", right outside the body.

> Natural birth is messy

That bears repeating. One of the grossest things I've ever witnessed (which wasn't something dead) was my son immediately after he was born. I was impressed.

Did you read the comment you are responding to as saying bacterial travel through the intestinal wall, through the vagina, and into the fetus? It seems like it, but that isn't at all what op said.

The bacterial transfer happens after the placenta has broken and the baby is being pushed out of the vagina. The vaginal opening and anus are inches away. The woman is bearing down to push out the baby and there can be discharges from the anus. Even if that doesn't happen, the area around the anus isn't entirely antiseptic.

of course contamination can happen once the baby it out of the mother body. I was refuting the intra-body contamination thesis. cf: > The organs are far from sterile, whole pathways are very close

That does not imply intra-body transfer, though. It’s exactly what it says. The digestive organs and the vaginal canal are not sterile, and their pathways converge at the bottom end. Seems pretty straightforward from the rest of the comment that, once the amniotic sac breaks it’s a bacterial slip all the way out, with a surprise at the end.

"leading hospitals" are defined where? (so i can look into it)

Those leading hospitals probably do not exist considering the time it takes for scientific knowledge to be used in practice is often infinity.

> considering the time it takes for scientific knowledge to be used in practice is often infinity

A wise statement!

If there's fecal transfer I would think its between the baby and the mother. A baby poops a lot and a mother cleans up, probably gets some on her hands. Maybe a baby regulates the mothers digestive system in some beneficial way to the baby.

Many women never get back to the shape they were in before birth and stay fat after? Could be a permanent change in their gut bacteria, caused by the baby to get the mother to overeat to produce more milk for the baby.

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