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Really stressful episodes can leave you very screwed up in the head

Earlier in my career, I would sometimes get very annoyed when users would call me to report problems. Thinking about it, I realized that it was me that was the problem. I put a picture of a guy working in a coal mine next to my phone so I could have some perspective.

Operation Overlord was the code-name for the Battle of Normandy. The average age of the soldiers in that battle was 20. Up to 226,000 casualties with up to 39,000 dead.

I don't mean to belittle anyone's experiences, but she is claiming permanent brain damage from the stress of being a software engineer and used as evidence of that brain damage that, "some days I couldn’t find my car in the garage or forgot entire conversations". The first one was literally a Seinfeld episode. The second one - who doesn't do that?

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> I don't mean to belittle anyone's experiences

Then why did you do it? Surely if you’re self-aware enough to write this part, you’re self-aware enough to not write the rest of the paragraph, or to imply that, if it’s not Battle of Normandy bad, it’s not worth mentioning.

She said that she was put on forced medical leave by her doctor. You ignored that in favor of making a dismissive comment about an anecdote.

The author wrote a highly personal post about a difficult situation, in effort to advise people to avoid situations that caused her trauma. That takes a lot of courage, and I admire her for it.

I can tell your comment comes from a place of wanting to be kind and I commend you for that intention.

We just have different definitions of what constitutes being kind. I think it is kinder to tell people what you really think than it is to coddle them. Sometimes people are better off hearing hard truths.

She described a career filled with unnecessary stress and unsuccessful projects where everyone else is at fault and every environment is toxic. If I were describing my own career in that way, I'd think it was time for some introspection.

If you were her friend, sure. But you're just some internet stranger piling on. Hard truths are delivered in private, not shouted in a public square where the author isn't even present.

But that's not what actually inspired me to comment. The main thing that bugged me about this subthread is that, rather than contributing to a potentially interesting conversation about whether workspaces are toxic, and what to do about it, people are nitpicking whether the author's self-described trauma is legitimate or not. Regardless of whether it's true, it strikes me as a form of ad-hominem... ignoring the content in favor of attacking the author.

That's not so much about you, I have to admit, as the whole subthread. Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

> "Every toxic workplace I’ve been in was usually the result of bad executive leadership, and this was no different."

> "...were central to our struggles and the toxicity of the environment. ... two experts in their fields from competing corporations would fail to agree"

> "...at best we had a part-time PM for a brief time who volunteered and then moved on"

> "...our leads were overworked and lacked the power to create change."

>"...I’ve seen managers cry multiple times, and this is one of the places that happened."

>"...and I’ve been blessed with colleagues and leads who have seen the worth of it and supported me."

This does not read as though she is blaming "everyone else". Throughout the post there is a very heavy focus on "we" and "our" for referring to the team and the teams stress and lack of empowerment. I thought she went out of her way to make clear it wasnt the team she worked with, but upper management fostering a negative environment.(ex, not supporting the team needing a PM) Finally recognizing that upper leadership and people outside the project injecting themselves into or blocking change, seems like introspection. Finally seeing that this was not right/healthy, is how one gets out of an abusive pattern. This is more of a retrospective than the sprint

> Over time I slowly lost my mind and short term memory, to the point that some days ...

Added the first part of the sentence missing from your example. Prolonged exposure to an unhealthy stressed environment can create physical changes in the brain and body. In this case, chronic stress which had such adverse effects it caused a forced medical leave.

> ...from the stress of being a software engineer

"My two years at Google were spent perpetually stressed, acting as an unofficial PM, helping run meetings and document decisions while dealing with sometimes hostile colleagues." - I can't speak for others, but this is not the 'normal' stress of being a software engineer that I know. That has all kinds of red flags. I have never been asked to perform the duties of an assistant/secretary or help organize a meeting that was not mine. Nor have I had to juggle the actual normal stress of my software job on top of having an unofficial/unpaid PM role (itself a full time job), while also having to deal with hostile colleagues. And, it seems they were not the only ones having to deal with some of this.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/protect-your-br...

https://www.metabolismjournal.com/article/S0026-0495(05)0003...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03064...

In this case, chronic stress which had such adverse effects it caused a forced medical leave.

You seem to know a lot about this - can you tell me what "forced medical leave" is? It seems to imply that a doctor ordered her to stop working against her will and that she was forced to obey. In what states is that legal? I've googled every iteration of "forced medical leave" I can think of and the only thing I can find is that it is illegal for employers to force you to take medical leave in lieu of complying with reasonable accommodations.

I don't see anything about a doctor being able to order "forced medical leave" so appreciate any help you can provide in helping me understand what that means.

Depending on your medical circumstances, if a physician believes there's a threat to your health and safety, they can have you sent for in-patient treatment against your will. I know people this has happened to.

If your health deteriorates to the point where a physician has graduated from gentle advice to very strong recommendations, if things get any worse they may be forced to take that intervention. There are specific symptoms and conditions that will set off red flags and alarm bells where they will begin asking you specific screening questions that may lead to taking drastic action.

Mental health problems can be serious stuff when they get out of hand! Your body will do bizarre stuff it wouldn't normally do even if you're a perfectly healthy individual. In my case it was bad enough things had progressed to very strongly worded recommendations, and given the circumstances I was totally okay with taking the advice even though it would negatively impact the project (and my career).

they can have you sent for in-patient treatment

Sure, everyone knows that. But "forced medical leave" from work seems to be something completely different. I can't seem to find any information whatsoever about it.

Perhaps the author could have worded that differently as “involuntary medical leave”?

Employers can require a return-to-work note from the doctor. If that doctor involuntary committed her and suggested she quit, there is a good chance the doctor may hold on to that note for a bit as well.

If something like this is what happened, I would suspect it would raise HR flags to the point of requiring the note to return to work.

https://www.google.com/search?q=return+to+work+release

I'm glad that strategy worked out for you. It's very easy to get sucked into something (anything), it becoming your entire world, and everything triggering a life or death stress response, when in reality it's not a problem. Being able to take distance from a situation as you mention, and remember that you're just sitting in an office and it's not like you're literally about to die is a very important skill to have.

However, many people don't have it, or just get too apathetic about the job if they detach like that, and live very stressful lives. I've personally seen it happen several times.

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