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Comment by can16358p | Hacker News Reader

To be honest, it is the way it should be. Government taxing crypto is similar to mafia holding a gun and asking you for money.

Good that they didn't go that way (even if only applies to assets held > 1 year)

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I get some public services need the tax money to function. But governments nowadays tax people beyond oblivion, specially in Europe.

The average European has a good quality of life though.

Yeah it’s crazy why anyone emigrates from Europe to the US

it's hard to get high wages in europe compared to america. So it makes sense to work in america for a while, save and invest, and eventually come back to europe to retire or live a more leisurely lifestyle.

But their lifestyle is so much worse the moment they step foot in America

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone has the same lifestyle preferences as you do.

That sounds like such an ideology-driven answer. Wonder if you’ve actually personally experienced working and living in both places.

This is pretty ignorant. Assuming your comment is based on a actual experience in both places (and ignoring how heterogeneous "Europe" and "the US" are), the comment is still equivalent to saying "it's crazy that someone has different priorities than me"

To improve their life? Immigration of qualified workers is a bit different.

Americans enjoy substantially higher material consumption than their European counterparts. The US has 85% higher household consumption expenditures than France (about the median of the EU15). The difference between the US and France is about equivalent to the difference between France and Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...

"Good quality of life" is not the same as "higher material consumption", though the former is unquantifiable and subjective. As someone who has lived about equal amount of time in the U.S., I'd say I have better quality of life in Europe but less material consumption.

Is it common to associate quality of life and consumption? I’m sure there is some correlation but it seems a bit strange, especially when you think about things France has such as universal free healthcare or free access to good education.

  Median wealth per adult in the US:  $79,274
  Median wealth per adult in France: $133,559

Mean wealth per adult is reversed (much higher in the US), because a few US billionaires are really really rich. But unless you're one of the few lucky billionaires, you're doing better living in France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...

That’s the Credit Suisse report that includes things like natural resources. It’s entirely unrelated to actual individual wealth.

So Canada gets credit for its uranium reserves and then divides it across the population.

No relation whatsoever to actual cash in the bank.

“ These figures are influenced by real estate prices, equity market prices, exchange rates, liabilities, debts, adult percentage of the population, human resources, natural resources and capital and technological advancements, which may create new assets or render others worthless in the future.”

Meanwhile, the quality of life in America is great, not merely "good".

Counterpoint - in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me. The place is generally tidy, amenities are good, emergency services efficient, roads good etc. (I appreciate there's always exceptions to this). I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state. My taxes cover this, and also cover those that can't pay. As such, life is (I expect) much better for those with less than it was a hundred years ago and society is probably happier and more stable as a whole.

I don't know if we have it completely correct and there's definitely a balancing act. There's also growing inequality. But what's the right amount of tax to pay? Not referencing you directly, but I often see crypto threads that call for the government to "keep their hands of my money" - and I wonder if these people would still say the same thing when their bins weren't emptied, or the roads were so full of potholes the lambo couldn't drive on them etc etc.

> society is probably happier and more stable as a whole.

The pill capital of the world? Who can't decide which international alliances to run with?

I was with you until this.

Than it was 100 years ago?

I am by no means suggesting we have it right, but widening the gap between have an have not and then saying "we have, we're ok - you look after yourself" isn't exactly a recipe for stability.

> in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me.

Where the hell do you live in the UK because that’s certainly not true in Birmingham. I moved to Germany and got orthopaedics, MRI, and physio in the space of 3 weeks. Would have taken months in the UK during COVID. Have you actually tried using the NHS?

> I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state.

Also not true, the conservative government are very aggressive about taking away benefits

I'm from Portugal, afaik we get taxed a lot more than you. For reference, the minimum wage is ~700€.

See the prices:

- We pay a lot more for cars, for example a 20000€ car in Germany costs 25000-30000€ in Portugal. After acquiring a car, depending on the engine capacity you pay more taxes (if you get a after-2010 car). For example, I drive a BMW 316d from 2017 and I pay 250€ anually to the state just to drive it. Our roads are garbage filled with holes and bad quality pavement. Also, a litter of diesel costs 2€, taxes for fuel are ~50%.

- Our wages are highly taxed as well, atleast 34% go to the social security and to the state each month. If you get 800€ per month and you boss decides to raise you by 100€, half of the money goes to the state.

- Food and services are highly taxed as well. Most stuff pays 23% of taxes for no freaking reason.

- Electricity and other services are also highly taxed as well. We pay 23% for electricity in our bill and we also have to pay for RTP (state national television...) from that bill. Water bill, only 5% of my bill is actually for what I've used in water, water is basically undrinkable but I pay 95% just for taxes.

- Rent, stocks and other stuff are all taxed to 28%. Meaning one month of rent and 28% goes directly to the state instead of the landlord. He also has to pay an yearly tax to keep his propriety. This tax depends on the size and a lot of factors but an apartment may pay 400€ yearly.

- A company pays around 4000 different taxes yearly, and the most ridiculous tax is that the government taxes the companies for profit they have yet to make. Companies in 2022 are already paying 2023 taxes.

And list could go on.

All this taxation for crappy healthcare system (IT'S NOT FREE...), crappy roads, crappy public services, crappy policing (Portugal it's not a safe country like many foreigners agree, try needing the police help and you'll see...) and of course, crappy military that is way short on NATO demands.

Point being: Taxing is basically theft, no matter the country you are in, you will never get the benefits of your taxes because corrupt governments, debt, etc...

I totally see your sentiment about Portugal but not sure you can then confidently arrive at the conclusion “no matter the country you’re in”. When something is dysfunctional in one country that doesn’t suggest it’s the same in every other country? I’m sure Scandinavian countries also have their issues but folks living there might generally dislike their high taxation less than in Southern Europe.

That was my concern too. Governments already have WAY TOO MUCH power and the last thing we should be doing is to make governments richer.

Don't know about Germany but in my country government is corrupted and and tax paid is going straight into corruption.

While mine is one of the worse, it's definitely not the only one.

Do not support corruption.

Incoming has been taxed for a long time. If new ways of obtaining such incoming arrise (crypto), wouldn't it be unfair not to tax them? That has little to do with greedy governments.

You may feel that way about all taxes. But it's weird that crypto currencies are an exception.

People tend to have special feelings about the taxes they pay (or would pay) themselves.

Personally, I pay mostly income taxes, and I definitely feel that taxation should be shifted away form income over to property taxes, taxes on polution and taxes on resource consumption. (To encourage people to provide services to each other, and discourage them from buying physical goods that end up in a landfill within a few years.)

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