The Nature of the Firm (1937)
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
This paper is the first economics paper I ever read (a long time ago, excuse my if my summary is awful lol), and still one of the most thought-provoking and interesting papers I've encountered.
The fun-to-think-about questions that it leads me to:
1. What sort of transaction costs between people today are _practically_ the most important to leading to a creation of a firm?
2. What if we built technology that reduced those transaction costs to near zero? E.g. what would it mean for there to be less incentives for a firm to form?
3. How does questions of transaction costs relate to market structure and monopoly?
I guess mostly this paper is amazing b/c it made me realize I never really thought to ask the question "why companies in the first place?"
Discovery of services (what can I help you with? what can you do for me) and trust (can I trust you to do task <x>? Can you trust me to pay you) are two of the biggest person to person transaction costs I see nowadays.
Maybe this just hasn't shown up in the numbers yet, because there's a delayed effect? Or do SaaS and remote work tools benefit firms internally just as much, or more, than someone contracting out work on the open market?
[0] https://marginalrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/HN...
Just rode through a startup and acquisition in a space I’d never thought much about (way underserved but all kinds of money sliding around) until I worked there with a smaller than I would have thought possible team.
All of that being said, SaaS and remote work tools should reduce the cost of transactions in the firm, which means expanded control of capital and more productive monitoring systems. In effect this means that the company can coordinate restrictions on output, monitor agents, and curb the costs imposed by the agents on the firm.
Theory is ambiguous when it comes to markups, what the company charges versus the price that consumers pay. This might go up or go down. There is a lot of current debate on this. But the theory does suggest that markets should get more monopolized.
Let me know if you need more. This is one of my research foci.
Costs of organization can also drop, making firms more competitive compared to individual contracting.
I have skill-a , you have skill-b. Skill-a plus skill-b would make a device that would solve a big problem in the world. Company solves the transaction cost of finding two people with complementary skills.
http://www.smashcompany.com/business/what-work-can-be-done-f..."
Like fuck me for wanting more information and to base my beliefs on sound conclusions.
I have always had the "Asks why way too much" problem. Most people are defensive at first as if I had the gall the question them, but the ones I've learned the most from are the ones that realize the "why" isn't questioning them as it is questioning the process for better understanding.
The reason for waiting is that there's a sharp dropoff in interestingness along the repetition curve, and a few weeks is long enough to flush the hivemind caches.
Also, you make a lot of assertions in your post without substantiating them. This generally contributes to outcry when the assertions don't line up with people's personal experience.
I wonder how many firms arise simply to feed the ego of the people who start it? Certainly you must address this part of WFH? That fact was brought sharply into focus by the pandemic, no?
As for meltdowns, I think it is because you are poking at something irrational namely "the urge to work from home". WFH has been a "freebie" for most folks - to use your example jobs that should pay $110k are paying $250k.
When you poke at this irrationality, like questioning the provenance of stolen goods, people get defensive and have emotional reactions. Deep down folks know that they have to accept the inevitability of going back or take a pay cut and neither option sits well.
I came to the conclusion that open offices really did ruin everything. “On edge, wary, defensive, and emotional” is a pretty accurate description how I felt every day at work after everything changed to open offices.
It turns any discussion automatically into a status contest, with a first mover advantage. I've never seen an intelligent person use it.
It’s a nothing rhetorical gambit and a pretty bald one at that.
CEO of Shell Oil: What? Why? What is wrong with fossil fuel? Why are you attacking me? What evidence do you have that lets you use words like "catastrophic"? And, uh, what about the economy? The workers?
----------------------
Moral of the story: sometimes very high status people get defensive.
However I would say that a lot of your argument seems to be based on the fact that senior leaders / top performers like to meet in person, so therefore there must be benefits. Have you considered the possibility that the causality is reversed here? The current generation of senior leaders came up before working from home was really possible, therefore are by definition going to be the people who thrive in face to face environment. Conversely people who work more effectively from home (including all the intangibles) are much less likely to currently have reached senior positions. But now working from home is so much more convenient, is there a reason to think that there couldn't be a rebalancing here?
I work with a lot of startups. I was recently working with PairEyewear.com, founded by 2 people who were 26 years old, and who are now 28 years old. They go to the office 4 days a week. I do not see a generational shift, I see leaders of all ages going to the office.
Many people will have already decided before they are 26 that they aren't cut out for leadership because they don't fit the prevailing idea of what a leader is/does.
We're able to handle larger projects, offer greater breadth of services and service more clients than we would on our own, but we use one outward facing name so that clients feel they are interacting with one entity. We each have sub-speciallizations and clients are better served by the greater breadth of expertise. We almost always beat everyone on price too.
Clients are often, but not always, shared.
We each buy our own equipment, but we share it when needed and we share expertise. We each pitch in a 1/3 share for an office space to meet with clients.
In practice it works wonderfully.
But boy, 'the man' does not like that arrangement. They can't possibly fathom that there's an equal power dynamic, or that we really are separate entities, each with our own clients and business infrastructure. We just work together in only the ways each person finds mutually beneficial.
How is this fundamentally different from a single company with 3 departments? What advantages are you garnering? Are there purely tax advantages to this?
If we were partners, we'd basically have to have some sort of salary or profit-sharing agreement which would likely require all manner of careful management of expectations. So, for example, say we split profit 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Well, how do you handle the situation where one partner is not putting out? What if they become less efficient for several months because of personal issues? What if one wants to just go travel for a month? What if one partner wants to be more lenient on their tax write-offs than others are comfortable with? Rather than hash out some complicated agreement with lawyers and all that, we just operate internally as independent companies.
This way, problems are much more contained. If one partner starts fucking off, the others just stop sharing work. There is no "milking their hours" situation because that is reflected in the pre-work price negotiations. There's no unfairness in expectations, because we treat each other as separate entities and let the 'market' figure it out.
Also, everyone has complete skin in the game on their own projects and own clients.
I wouldn't say there are any inherent tax advantages except that you have complete flexibility to make it work for your own person.
What legal structure are you each using? sole proprietorships, llcs, s-corps? (Assuming you’re US based)
Are there any tax benefits/costs to this arrangement?
Has the government hassled you regarding the arrangement? (It sounds like it has, but…how exactly and how did you respond?)
Have counterparties hassled you or been scared off? Do they even “know” of the arrangement?
Are there significant legal/transaction costs between the three of you? If not, is that simply because you have strong trust in each other?
We've used a mix of ALL of the above. Right now, it's two s-corps and an LLC. That's the nice thing, there's flexibility in how YOU want to structure YOUR stuff and do so optimally. UNFORTUNATELY, we're all California based, so sole proprietorships are probably out now.
>Are there any tax benefits/costs to this arrangement?
Yeah, so you lose out on economies of scale that would come by having ONE set of books, ONE accountant, an HR department, etc. However, that gets offset a bit by having total control and flexibility in how you structure your tax write-offs. On balance, I think I come out ahead this way, but it's a bit more unbillable work.
>Has the government hassled you regarding the arrangement? (It sounds like it has, but…how exactly and how did you respond?)
Yes, the CA EDD was kind of a nightmare to deal with over this issue during an audit which was for the year or two BEFORE the ABC test came into affect. It all mostly worked out but they just could NOT get it. We kind of lucked out there.
>Have counterparties hassled you or been scared off? Do they even “know” of the arrangement?
Basically, no, but they don't really know the arrangement. We have a sort of sub-contractor agreement that spells out who carries insurance liability for a particular job, and some other details. (I'm fuzzy on the details, it's been a while).
>Are there significant legal/transaction costs between the three of you? If not, is that simply because you have strong trust in each other?
Transaction costs are very minimal. We have contracts specifying the nature of payment and negotiations, and a clearly defined structure for who "owns" particular clients. That said, trust is paradoxically very high despite what I'd say is in some ways a very low-trust structure. The essence of the idea was to take all the stuff that would normally have to involve an army of lawyers and whatnot and convert it to something that can be managed as a free market.
Beyond our core team, we have several people that form a loose coalition of professionals we occasionally rope in on projects as well. This lets us grow or shrink out team in a really quick-to-adapt way without really making anyone feel responsible for anyone else's livelihood. Since we're regular partners on projects, typical transaction costs and negotiations are very minimal.
In general, Coase's transaction cost framework is very useful in the Internet era - Amazon EC2 can be viewed as a way for firms to lower transaction costs of scaling up and down to zero, something that not even large firms could manage, some time ago.
Shopify is a way for small merchants to access costs per transaction that were only available to large ecommerce giants and so on and so forth.
Transaction costs are just a model, and just like all models, the transaction cost model is imperfect and not always right, but often useful.
What transaction costs in the modern economy are ripe to be pared down?
- Suing a powerful adversary if you are in the right
- democratically changing a law (and abolishing old laws) to adapt to changed technologies
- patents and copyright as a way to motivate innovation (those are transaction costs introduced with a noble intention, but I think they can be improved by e.g. just paying people to
- land speculation (georgism ho!)
- borders and restrictions on free movement
- moralistic bans on drugs and prostitution instead of regulation to make those transactions safe and cut down on externalities
The book "radical markets", while not 100% aligned with my politics gives a more detailed overview on some of these
I think #1 is in the process of being unbundled. We _just_ need a coordination platform which brings lead plaintiffs, backers and lawyers together on a platform. Perhaps you mean something else by it?
Abolishing old laws already happens in some states but it needs to be lower transaction cost event. This would be a fun platform to build and something that can bring manifold benefit to society. Changing laws is a special and more complex case of creating new laws and has too much complexity maybe 10x harder than repealing old laws.
The last two evoke too many beliefs about ideology, moralism and nativist beliefs so I won't go there.
Can you extrapolate on land speculation?
Land speculation is the general Georgist critique of natural monopolies like land allowing people to make profits without labor or risk, creating rents which suck up the efficiency gains of the wider economy.
https://www.worldcat.org/title/complex-organizations-a-criti...
https://archive.org/search.php?query=Complex+organizations+:...
"A mythical visitor from Mars, not having been apprised of the centrality of markets and contracts, might find the new institutional economics rather astonishing. Suppose that it (the visitor I’ll avoid the question of its sex) approaches the Earth from space, equipped with a telescope that reveals social structures. The firms reveal themselves, say, as solid green areas with faint interior contours marking out divisions and departments. Market transactions show as red lines connecting firms, forming a network in the spaces between them. Within firms (and perhaps even between them) the approaching visitor also sees pale blue lines, the lines of authority connecting bosses with various levels of workers. As our visitor looked more carefully at the scene beneath, it might see one of the green masses divide, as a firm divested itself of one of its divisions. Or it might see one green object gobble up another. At this distance, the departing golden parachutes would probably not be visible. No matter whether our visitor approached the United States or the Soviet Union, urban China or the European Community, the greater part of the space below it would be within the green areas, for almost all of the inhabitants would be employees, hence inside the firm boundaries. Organizations would be the dominant feature of the landscape. A message sent back home, describing the scene, would speak of “large green areas interconnected by red lines.” It would not likely speak of “a network of red lines connecting green spots.”
That is itself referenced in the second piece which ties this into compuational complexity and socialist planning, by Cosma Shalizi.
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.5.2.25
https://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimiz...
The Nature of the Firm (1937) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16837168 - April 2018 (12 comments)
The Nature of the Firm (1937) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12344575 - Aug 2016 (14 comments)
The Nature of the Firm - Coase - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3622639 - Feb 2012 (3 comments)
I think about that when I see some tech companies and their employment levels.