What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
historytoday.com
historytoday.com
Frequently discussed was a line that a lot of Americans would recognize today, of "when should Britain get involved??" because of the destructiveness of the conflict. Prime Minister Palmerston & Foreign Secretary Russell spent a lot of time maneuvering and deflecting calls for Britain to get involved or pick a side.
A few other bits I found surprising when studying this topic—
1. Some British MPs were very pro-Confederate, and pushed for recognition of the Confederacy as a real country in Parliament.
2. British war correspondents were on the ground with both Union and Confederate armies, and sent regular dispatches to British newspapers.
3. British (and other European) officers regularly volunteered on *both* sides.
4. It was fashionable for a time in Britain to be pro-Confederate. Confederate propagandist networks *in* Britain brilliantly played down slavery and played up "self-determination".
5. Britain nearly declared war on the Union (Trent affair), to the point that Royal Navy was just waiting for the go-signal to commence hostilities & Britain sent thousands of additional troops to Canada.
6. There were *tons* of ironclads already in European fleets, there had just never been a fight between ironclads! Europeans watched the Monitor v. Merrimack battle & adapted their fleets & battle doctrines accordingly.
7. The British cabinet had a very serious, "can we even win a war against the U.S. anymore?" conversation at the end of the conflict, after witnessing the million-man army of the Union, the Richmond campaign, and growing effectiveness of the U.S. Navy.
8. Americans credit Seward as a brilliant Secretary of State during the conflict, but in Britain and France he was considered foolish, dangerous, and unpredictable—a lot of the tension between the Union and Europe can be laid at his feet.
9. Prussian military observers watched how the Union used railroads to move massive numbers of troops & supplies around, and adopted a lot of the Union tactics to absolutely crush the French just a few years later. (Franco-Prussian war of 1870.) Seriously - there were European observers *all over the place*.
Strongly recommend A World on Fire: Britain's Crucial Role in the American Civil War by Amanda Foreman. Brilliant book, and a page-turner.Early on the Union blockade was essentially a paper blockade, and therefore of dubious international legality. There were laws regarding blockades, but those laws were fuzzy when it came to civil wars & a nation blockading their own ports. The Union would have been in violation of international law if the Confederacy were a recognized country, which would have given Britain and France a pretext to end the blockade by force. Early in the war, almost any European sea power (Britain especially) could have broken the Union Navy in a matter of hours.
The Confederate government imposed a cotton boycott to trigger economic turmoil in Britain especially (Britain was always their primary diplomatic target), which they felt would create enough political pressure in Parliament to spur recognition and a complete lifting of the blockade by the Royal Navy.
The economic problems in Britain were very real (triggering waves of emigration & from Lancashire & other towns that were cotton dependent) but the British largely worked around them. They retooled their factories to work with cotton from Egypt, India, and the East Indies. Workers found other jobs. Government relief. A lot of people suffered though.
The Confederates seriously underestimated the degree to which Britain and British politicians loathed slavery. Slavery stacked the deck against them diplomatically from the beginning. There were other geopolitical reasons (like Britain not wanting to risk Canada by sparking a conflict with the Union) but the British basically chose to suck it up and endure the cotton famine & economic depression because they wanted slavery gone, and America was one of the last major holdouts at that point.
I've generally had a pretty cynical view towards British abolitionism, which is that the elites only disliked slavery to the extent that they found capitalistic imperialism (i.e. systems that controlled the lower classes through persistent indebtedness and restrictions on ownership of real estate) to be more profitable and politically stable than the systems constructed on the institution of slavery.
And, coincidentally, that their empire, whose 19th century wealth was bootstrapped on the profits of slave-trading and the manufacture of raw materials extracted via slave labor, was uniquely-well-positioned to come out on top in a world order deprived of slave labor.
In other words, they opposed slavery on the basis of limiting economic volatility, and maintaining their geopolitical status, more so than any moral basis.
I'd love to read more sources that balance out my cynicism. :)
> I've generally had a pretty cynical view towards British abolitionism
I am not an expert on abolitionist movements or their political effects, but there was a strong moral outrage to slavery in the 19th century and it developed very rapidly, starting in Britain. I recommend reading about the British public's reaction to the publication of Uncle Tom's Cabin.
> their empire, whose 19th century wealth was bootstrapped on the profits of of slave-trading and the manufacture of raw materials extracted via slave labor, was uniquely-well-positioned to come out on top in a world order deprived of slave labor
You're not wrong, and you can toss colonialism in there, too. The Japanese were made the same argument in the early 20th century as they were trying to expand and acquire colonies and kept getting their knuckles whacked by the Europeans, who were (mostly) trying to pump the brakes on colonialism by that point.
http://beam-inc.org/abraham-lincoln-and-tsar-alexander-ii-pa...
I'm not sure about the events that you're referring to. The Treaty of Riga was in 1921, the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement was signed in 1921 as well, the USSR was only declared in 1922, and the UK recognized it in 1924, the same year in which Lenin died. In fact, related to the Trade Agreement he complained:
> The British government has handed us its draft, we have given our counterdraft, but it is still obvious that the British government is dragging its feet over the agreement because the reactionary war party is still hard at work there
So, I don't think it's fair to assume that it was only the UK who wanted normalized relations, and that the difficulties came from only one side.
> taking Eastern Europe sealed the deal
Which again, seems out of place, since I presume you're referring to events that followed the start of WW2.
Talking about WW2, Europe wasn't friendly to the USSR leading up to war:
The initial anti-comintern treaty in 1935 was extended to the United Kingdom, Italy, Poland and China (ruled by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek).
In 1939, Stalin offered to Britain and France to deploy a million troops against Nazi Germany, but he had been rebuffed:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/322...
and of course, Churchill's Operation Unthinkable means that Britan had a deep, deep distrust of the USSR.
Despite all this, the USSR asked to join NATO in 1954, but again: it had been rebuffed, along its proposals of reunification and neutrality for Germany.
We often forget about all this, and only think of the reasons for why we distrusted the USSR, but we ignore all of the opportunities that we missed for a friendlier relationship.
WOW thank you I never heard of this
The Telegraph article has a quote from a historian:
> "There was no mention of this in any of the three contemporaneous diaries, two British and one French - including that of Drax," he said. "I don't myself believe the Russians were serious."
You also seem unfamiliar with the purpose of NATO. Wikipedia:
> NATO is a system of collective security: its independent member states agree to defend each other against attacks by third parties. It was established during the Cold War in response to the threat posed by the Soviet Union.
Oh so it was a prank? - - What a weak thesis...
> You also seem unfamiliar with the purpose of NATO. Wikipedia
You seem unfamiliar with the fact the USSR asked to join NATO it seems
Also, politicians, including and especially Russian politicians at the time having unserious claims is not weak thesis. That was their frequent negotiating/pressuring/rhetorical tactic.
> NATO is a system of collective security: its independent member states agree to defend each other against attacks by third parties. It was established during the Cold War in response to the threat posed by the Soviet Union.
That is the stated purpose of NATO. The details of its real life military actions do not square with what you quoted at all - unless you can tell me which NATO member state Libya attacked.
You can blame it on France misusing the NATO moniker rather than it just being a coalition.
I also want to know more conditions under which Stalin (who really handled foreign policy then?) offered to send troops to Europe, considering USSR was sort of fighting Japan at the same time. I'm sure UK and France could corroborate and provide more details, if this offer was real.
For the record, the position* of Sotskov (the only source mentioned in the article you linked) is also that occupying Baltic states and dividing Europe between USSR and Germany was not in fact a land grab by USSR but rather a necessary measure to be able to resist Germany.
Never mind that this protection buffer would not have been needed if Germany did not expand its invasion... which it did thanks to USSR siding with it. Dubious twist of logic.
It seems obvious that leaving Germany to take more of Europe in the beginning of WWII would have drastically reduced the ability of USSR to withstand a subsequent attack by Germany, so the argument seems to be "our geniuses could foresee this, so they invaded Europe in order to save the world from fascists". This argument is canceled out, however, by considering that at the end of the day not entering a pact with the UK does not imply USSR needed to side with Germany, the act that enabled Germany to start the war (which presumably USSR was aware of) in the first place.
I'm not sure to which degree this treatment of WWII is truth vs. revisionism.
* Which also seems to be the official position of the Kremlin: http://www.svr.gov.ru/material/sbornik-dokumentov/otzyvy-na-...
This is not about "friendship pact", this is about non-aggression pact.
Was Poland not justified in entering a non-aggression pact with Germany?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declarat...
Was France not justified in entering a non-aggression pact with Germany?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement#Consequences
> Never mind that this protection buffer would not have been needed if Germany did not expand its invasion... which it did thanks to USSR siding with it. Dubious twist of logic.
Good questions/points, but we're judging decisions made at the time with the hindsight of decades after the war. I don't think it was clear to anyone who would've joined the war, which sides would've won, and the likelihood of such events.
Every country, depending on the circumstances, was probably trying to do what's best for them. Either avoiding war, or exploiting the messy situation by expanding their territory by annexing small part of neighboring states.
In fact, after seeing what happened to Poland, I think that every party in such agreements realized that they could provide, at best, temporary respite and delay confrontation (but that's not a weird isolated phenomenon: circumstances changes, and that provides ammunition to arguments that old agreements are not valid anymore).
It's not as much to enable other countries' war, but rather to delay one's own involvement in one war.
In fact, the USSR state budget was dedicated to defense for only about ~5%. A confrontation with Nazi Germany at the time would've been disastrous. But in the extra couple of years since, it increased to > 40%
Did they also devise secret protocols dividing the world into spheres of influence, which were subsequently expanded with clauses that had "friendship" in their titles?
> we're judging decisions made at the time with the hindsight of decades after the war
This is exactly what allows us to see objectively what was happening.
It's always easy to say "we didn't mean it, we were playing 3D chess" (like Trump apologists) right afterwards.
However, we can judge based on the actions, which were:
1) sign a non-agression pact with Nazi Germany
2) almost immediately after, jointly with Nazi Germany invade and divide a country
3) extend the pact with a further "friendship" treaty, dividing Europe*
4) further discuss joining Axis**
Where do you think things were really headed?
> I don't think it was clear to anyone who would've joined the war, which sides would've won, and the likelihood of such events.
> Every country, depending on the circumstances, was probably trying to do what's best for them
You're quick to rob all countries and their leaders of moral baselines. There was documented massive surprise (including Western communists) and outrage worldwide when USSR signed the pact. I think the pact at the time was somewhat of a blow to general morale, a sign that another major player takes the world as a zero-sum dog eat dog arena that you allude to.
It seems feasible Stalin/Molotov would've joined Axis if it's "better" for USSR. And furthermore what was going on in USSR under Stalin (ethical cleanses, mass murder) is not too different from what Hitler did, USSR and Nazi Germany are fairly similar in many regards.
But I don't think this is somehow just an instance of how every normal country disregards ethics in the name of own profit. For one, USSR was geopolitically differently situated compared to small countries within immediate vicinity of Germany. It had immense territory. It was actively forging agreements and trade with Germany at the time.
I'm happy USSR ultimately didn't get to win the initial war and divide the world alongside Axis.
> It's not as much to enable other countries' war, but rather to delay one's own involvement in one war.
USSR invaded Poland as soon as Germany did. You're right, this is not enabling other countries' war. This is actually joining the war, and not on the side of the good guys.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Boundary_and_Fri...
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Axis_talks#Molot...
Truman had so many financial struggles that the pension for presidents was created for him to live a dignified life after leaving office.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/johnson/fdrpoland.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944_Democratic_Party_vice_pre...
At which point he instead allied with Nazi Germany, aided in the invasion of Poland, personally ordered the mass execution of Polish POW's, and invaded Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.
> Despite all this, the USSR asked to join NATO in 1954, but again: it had been rebuffed
By 1954, the USSR had already set up undemocratic communist puppet states in Eastern Europe, been caught engaging in espionage against the United States, attempted to blockade West Berlin in order to pressure the Western Allies into abandoning it to Soviet control, and committed genocide and war crimes on possibly the greatest scale seen in history.
This is right after Russia organized processes and executions of class enemies. It demanded such processes of vasal states too. The monster processes were pretty large crime.
And this is btw, only like 14 years before Russia invaded other countries and started to occupie them in 1968.
Such a shocking action, after only little thing like The Great Purge and active hostile rhetorics from Russia ... and Holodomor.
This is ridiculous point of view that casts Russia as victim when other countries react to its aggression - whether aggression outside or inside. Russia 1935 and Germany 1936 were not that dissimilar, you know. Except Russia more bloody at that point.
- Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle
- It is rational to hate Russians in general
That is no contradiction. Authoritarians can have public support while at the same time severely oppressing opposition or anyone who dares to voice something else.
Also, opposition to Putin does not imply opposition to annexation of Ukrainian lands or turning Ukrainians into Russians by force. Opposition to Putin does not imply pro-democracy reform either.
> It is rational to hate Russians in general
Hate is a feeling. But accusations of Russophobia are all about support for sanctions or Ukraine in war. And are deployed whenever someone points out Russia as is now is threat to not just Ukraine, but to all countries in former eastern block.
All those are rational. So, if that matter average Russians look really down on Ukrainians too, are happy to use slurs against them and act offended it other formerly occupied countries are not "thankful".
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If anything, Russia was enabled rather then opposed for years. It was treated as something special, more worthy then other countries around it.
Russia is not opposing America as much as they are opposing right to existence as democracies to countries around them. It is way more countries around Russia calling for help to Ukraine then anyone else.
And yes, being at risk of being invaded by someone makes people hate that one. It makes them think again about what that country done to them before.
Brother. You are all over the place.
I was replying to this part:
> Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle. This man has very high public support. In particular, Russian population supports imperial ideology.
To which I reply: Yes, it’s rational to “hate” someone if they oppose you. And “someone” here means normal Russians.
I was not talking about the Russian government in this context.
And I don’t know why you brought up America.
The conversation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine may now be centered on NATO, but it began with statements of routine training exercises at the border and escalated to the de-Nazification of Ukraine. Russia has not done well to reach the hearts of its neighbors.
That we have to reach past the Cold War into the American Civil War to discuss amicable relations does not bode well.
Common, Ukrainian invasion did not happened out of blue. And I don't even mention Russia actively trying to influence politics of ther countries to the worst.
Should we go into how many countries Russia occupied at that point and how oppressive and murderous it was?
> invaded Chehenia
Invaded their own territory.
Just because you was stole something does not mean you can steal it again and again every time owners get it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Marcellus_Clay_(politi...
Ali's grandfather specifically named his son after Cassius to honor Cassius, the KY politician. The son proceeded to do the same, with who would eventually be a famous boxer, M. Ali.
The boxer changed his name to Ali, both due to his conversion to islam , and because he was angry to take the name of a plantation owner.
The latter is true - Cassius was a plantation owner. However, early on he defender ardently emancipation. He in fact suffered multiple murder attempts from actual slavery advocates... who surrounded him in KY
I wonder how much the Union's need to hedge against British intervention—so, to divert resources away from the war against the South, affecting troop placement, artillery availability, fortification building/maintenance/garrisoning, and fleet positioning—prolonged the war.
However, whatever that need was (to hedge against the British) should have been completely necessary, and really goes to show you just how valuable a strong diplomatic corps can be to a country.
The British wanted to be pro-Union. They wanted slavery gone. They didn't want to have to station huge numbers of troops in Canada, or large numbers of ships in the Atlantic.
Silly, unforced errors by Seward & Charles Francis Adams (the American ambassador) antagonized Britain throughout the war & made them unsure of their North American holdings. Ridiculous. Union diplomats should have been talking peace & partnership with Britain from day 1 of the conflict.
tbf, we had moral reasons for wanting slavery gone but practical reasons for thinking we were better off with a divided America and an independent Confederacy as a useful source of cheap cotton. Some would say our political positions haven't got more realistic since. :)
> By the late 1850s, cotton grown in the United States accounted for 77 percent of the 800 million pounds of cotton consumed in Britain. It also accounted for 90 percent of the 192 million pounds used in France, 60 percent of the 115 million pounds spun in the Zollverein, and 92 percent of the 102 million pounds manufactured in Russia.
One reason that there was support for the confederacy was the fear that the outcome of the war would lead to the end of access to abundant and cheap cotton (due to export duties, end of slavery, etc.).
One of the outcomes of the US Civil War was that the British Empire realized a need to "diversify" their sources, resulting in increasingly imperialistic behavior in India and Egypt, among others.
[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/12/empire-... the whole book is a fantastic peek behind the curtains of the history of global capital markets
These were very different sorts of ironclads. The British and French ironclads mostly resembled traditional ships, at least at first glance. They had steam engines but also retained their masts, and had broadside guns rather than turrets (except for the ill-fated HMS Captain..)
The American ironclads were more bizarre, superficially resembling submarines, and weren't particularly seaworthy (unlike the European ironclads.) The USS Monitor in particular was a novel design; mastless and steam powered with an armored turret, a shallow draft and low freeboard (similar to earlier ironclad floating batteries, but a lot lower). European navies subsequently started building their own 'monitors'.
The monitor class of ships were eventually pushed to the side by pre-dreadnought battleships that derived more from the traditional and seaworthy European ironclads than from monitors, with some lessons learned from monitors. See the HMS Devastation particularly; mastless and steam powered with armored turrets, but with a hull that was actually seaworthy unlike monitors.
This was a British oceangoing ironclad, launched in 1860: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMSWarrior.JPG
The difference in seaworthiness is abundantly clear. These American ironclads were more akin to gunboats, and mostly used on rivers (fighting for control of the Mississippi was a huge deal in the war). They were built comparatively cheaply, for a specific, immediate conflict. They often only had steam engines and lacked the endurance for transoceanic travel.
The British ironclads were built to project imperial power across the globe. The continued use of sail was important to extend endurance to reach far away places.
Not that we’re going towards feudalism but history has a cycle of armies going from a small force with a huge technology edge to a giant force with mundane tech. Even during the Roman Republic only the richest men could afford to fight.
What an interesting data point.
Also, the thing about a village supporting one cavalry soldier seems off. The roman army focused on infantry with cavalry being supplied by allied forces.
Also possible that they're thinking of the Roman Kingdom and the Equites?
They were of course small compared to infantry legions, and as the Republic and later Empire expanded they frequently hired auxiliaries, especially from a more cavalry focused groups.
The South had trouble to support their armies. Lee basically planned the Gettysburg campaign to live of the land. Soldiers were happy because they had enough to eat. A lot of soldiers lacked shoes.
And the fight they got was comically irrelevant to the ironclads they had.
I'm sure they had lots of great arguments trying to pull anything applicable out of it and apply the lessons to their own fleets.
He, unlike his more socially acceptable contemporaries, also deeply admired Lincoln. Many pieces published in prominent periodicals, like The Economist, painted him as a wily and double-dealing politician. One could understand that interpretation given the compromises he was desperately trying to make with Southern states to prevent the outbreak of war, but it gave prominent Brits an excuses to dismiss the sincerity of his anti-slavery rhetoric after the war broke out. (Lincoln himself was also being deeply transformed by the savagery of war. He would come to believe the carnage was divine punishment for the sin of slavery.) Marx would have none of it. He called out the hypocrisy of those who in the years prior condemned American slavery but would not support the cause of Lincoln and the Union because it didn't have an unblemished history of being totally and consistently anti-slavery.
The claim regarding the effectiveness of "Confederate propagandist networks" is overstated, though. People across Britain were divided on the issue, even across political camps and ethnic groups (e.g. Irish and English). To be clear, by "divided", I don't mean that people necessarily individually ambivalent. There were some staunch supporters on both sides.
There were also multiple reasons for preferring one side over another, too. Slavery was just one issue. Another was potential weakening the Monroe Doctrine. (During the Civil War, France under Napoleon III invaded and conquered Mexico, and Spain re-colonized what would become the Dominican Republic.) Others were access to raw materials, support for wars of national unity (European nationalists admired Lincoln, as would Hitler decades later), etc.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. AFAIK between his inauguration and the outbreak of war Lincoln had basically no interaction with any of the Southern states.
His total conviction led him to purchase a commission as major of Grenadiers in the 20th Foot, and set off for The Colonies, where he was promptly shot at The Battle of Saratoga and then taken prisoner.
Because he was a wounded officer and a minor noble, his wife was permitted to come and pick him up.
- https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/the-last-time-the-us-and-ind...
- https://aeon.co/essays/why-american-revolutionaries-admired-...
No one feared the American army would turn north. They could have crushed Canada, but peace between Canada and the US was seen as assured as long as the UK wanted it.
* Miller and Chesney’s lectures describe the course of the war up to that point, with Chesney focussing first on fighting in Virginia and then on operations in the west and south, such as Sherman’s March to the Sea
* In his lectures, Chesney laments that Sherman, in his March to the Sea near the end of the war, ‘has given no voucher or note anywhere for the supplies he has seized [from civilians]’ and expresses concern about whether the North and South could be reconciled, given the brutality of the conflict
* The combat between the Monitor and the Merrimac, notable for being the first clash between ironclad ships, is referenced but purposely not discussed because ‘the result has not influenced the military progress of the war’
* In some cases, the conduct of the Civil War was used by British officers to justify their own opinions of how the UK should prepare its military for future wars
* The RUSI lectures demonstrate the challenges of following a war as it is occurring from a distance, the disappointment with the Union’s military performance early in the war and the manner in which foreign conflicts were mobilised to justify the policies of people like the Duke of Cambridge
It's just that the Western armies and Western generals came in, and they fought in a significantly different fashion. You can call the West of the Union more "modern". Or "pragmatic". Or maybe "barbaric" is the right word.
No one wanted to be seen as being "Barbaric". Except Western armies, who really didn't care what people thought about them. (At least, not as much as they cared about their orders.)
It seems way more likely to be 'cargo cult' type learning where something worked for centuries and so got formalised and taught rigidly?
Any good sources on this, it must have been covered on AskHistorians!?
Hi, the Crimean War would like to remind you that it existed.
The U.S., although gaining steam economically (pun intended), was still a backwater, rural, nation isolated by a whole lot of ocean (edit: I meant all this from a military point of view). I am sure the abolitionists in power in Parliament were interested in the outcome of the war from that point of view, but it was really of very little consequence to UK or Europe as a whole.
They may have not thought much about the war, but it wouldn't be because the US had a small economy or population.
[1] https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/show/liverpools-aberc...
Don’t we typically just give a fuckton of guns and resources (and maybe more) to whichever side we want to win.
The war might not have been militarily relevant to Europeans, but that doesn’t mean people weren’t paying attention. The US was as big and as rich as the European powers at that point. It’s like today: If France broke out in a civil war it would be all over the news 24/7.
A "backwater"? That forced the 49th parallel on the british in the 1810s? That took oregon territories from the british in the 1840s? The "backwater" that "took" louisiana territories from france and alaska from the russians? The "backwater" that took texas,california,et al from mexico? The "backwater" that took control over the yangtze river from china in 1854?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangtze_Patrol
The "backwater" that forced japan to open in the 1850s? Which no european power, including britain, was able to do?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition
It wasn't the british navy that dominated the seas mid 1800s. It was american whalers.
By the civil war, we had been shitting on the british and the rest of the great powers for decades. Not bad for a "backwater".
Generally, the US revolutionary war was viewed very positively in parts of Europe. That upstart new world was finally in its place and would now tear itself to pieces without European governance. Britain considered entering the war early on(on the southern side!) and benefited from the economic collapse of the Americas. The British commercial fleets went from near-parity with the US merchant marine to unquestioned ruler of the commercial seas by the devastation of the blockades and the lack of insurance underwriting for north or south flagged vehicles.
But a lot of things were missed millitary that they would learn in 1914. The role of rail lines and junctions, and the early signs of trench warfare and total war were the only thing that could break near-industrial societies. The potential of armored battleships and submarines. (Though to be fair, imagine how much history would have changed if the Turtle had detonated its torpedo in the Revolutionary War!) These lessons would be learned a hard way sixty years later.
Go to the source.
Here is a book written by Sir Arthur James Lyon Fremantle, a British officer who traveled with the Confederate army in 1863. He is well known due to appearing in the movie Gettysburg based on The Killer Angels book. Three Months in the Southern States: April, June, 1863. https://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/fremantle/fremantle.html
Would we see America's "enemies" sending arms to the side of their choice to fight a proxy war on American soil? Would a side accept that aide?
Would America's "allies" sit out or pick sides? Would those sides align with the sides "enemies" would choose?
If history is any indication, yes and yes.
America's enemies maybe would pick a side in an attempt to destabilize the country more... But I think a splintered America would be extremely reluctant to accept help from Russia/China.
https://gettysburgcompiler.org/2015/01/05/a-prussian-observe...
This resulted in “stiffness in the lines and clumsiness in management and direction of troops” as large divisions of the army fully relied on their higher officers to direct all movement. “The loss of an upper-level commander,” Scheibert states, “Would cripple advance and retard again in battle.”
Interesting, this kind of criticism is leveled at the Russian army today.
Comments here are much more interesting.
Second place? The US Army of the South.
source: https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/facts.htm#:~:text=In%20July%201....
Won or lose, we still see Carpet Baggers…
If we and the French could just help the Confederates a bit more America might be ripe for reconquest! The French are already in Mexico and we have ships in Canada! The mad king was a fool for letting those backwards colonists break away in the first place.
Those darn Russian fleets showing up in 1863 in NY and SF with sealed orders to attack anyone who attacked the US! How dare they, those Russians will pay!
Get those Freemasonic/B'nai B'rith networks pumping out more confederate spies!
Cotton cotton cotton
That Lord Palmerston and his Zoo!
Whew, they didnt find our connections to John Wilkes Booth.