Microsoft employees say 'golden boy' executives are still running wild | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft employees say 'golden boy' executives are still running wild

businessinsider.com

45 pointsmonkey_monkey24 comments

I wonder what the best way is to strike a balance between calling an entire organization as having 'toxic culture' to highlighting the obvious egregious violations that we all want to eliminate. Like, can we call out America as having 'toxic culture' since we literally voted a sexual predator into office? At-least the employees at a company didn't vote on their leaders.

We’ve voted lots of sexual predators into office. Lyndon Johnson’s nickname for his penis was “jumbo”. Ben Franklin’s diplomatic strategy was to seduce his opponents wives so they would convince their husbands for him. Everyone knows about JFK and Clinton. And so on.

Ben Franklin was not a sexual predator in your scenario. Consent matters.

It’s not exactly a sterling example of ethics.

That's not what's being discussed. Your projections on morality - thankfully - do not make someone a sexual predator.

My point was not political, but just that overly broad use of words dilutes their effects.

Without knowing more details, none of that behavior seems predatory. Debaucherous and with ulterior motive, maybe, but so? I don't think being bold and pursuing women should be demonized.

They had a word for people who weren't officers in Germany, but did nothing to stop the violence?

Nazis, they were all Nazis.

Seriously dog, an organization is not some organic disconnected and siloed creature, it's all together in playing the song.

I have friends that work at these companies and they're not toxic.

Its like saying US citizens should renounce their citizenship and move to another country because of the warcrimes of the US that they didn't stop.

https://archive.ph/5xapC

Thank you...

"In the video that filled the screen, several young women in skimpy clothing frolicked on a bed; an overtly sexualized pillow fight ensued."

Is this some sort of demo Microsoft released, or something internal? Would be interested to see what is actually looks like versus the description here. I'm a bit confused if this was actually developed inside Microsoft or if this is some sort of anecdote that has been stretched so many times it lost all meaning.

Can we even see the video anywhere and make up our own minds?

Fwiw, it sounds like this was just one of many incidents with Kipman. The forced shoulder massage is probably worse. But just the fact that HR reps apparently have to keep an eye on him at all times and managers make a habit of warning employees about him speaks volumes.

Hearing stuff like this never ceases to amaze me. Of all the problems in the world, these seem like the easiest problems to solve. The solution? Fire each and everyone of these transgressors. Then you implement training and policies that does not allow this behavior to gestate. Is that really that difficult for these supposedly "genius" executives to handle? Can someone who behaves in the way described in these articles really be that important to your organization? It's a bit of a silly question though, I'll admit, because the answer doesn't matter. If someone behaves in these ways, they should be let go immediately.

> A representative for Myerson declined to confirm or deny the allegations against him. She said he "doesn't remember" berating employees at the event.

Imagine being so insane as to not remember if you publicly berated a crowd of people.

> "Can someone who behaves in the way described in these articles really be that important to your organization?"

You might ask Steve Jobs (probably the biggest poster child for successful technology industry jerks), Bill Gates, Linus Torvalds (before mellowing out later in life), Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Scott McNealy, Jeff Bezos, etc. about that. In short, yes, they quite obviously can and anybody who is amazed by that hasn't been paying attention to how the real world works. Much as some on HN would like to think otherwise, decency has nothing to do with intelligence; some of the worst human beings I have ever personally met were also quite smart and capable engineers. And businesses are willing to overlook quite a lot for the geese who are laying golden eggs.

I honestly dispute that. Those people are useful not necessarily because of their skills but because of the authority that they and others grant to them. And even though I said the answer doesn't matter in the context, imagine thinking one person is important enough to piss off, sexually harass, make puppets of, berate, fire, etc. the rest of the organization. That's lunacy.

> hasn't been paying attention to how the real world works

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the way the real world works. People do not rise to the top by mere virtue of combined empathy and intelligence. Every single person you listed is a narcissistic egomaniac.

Somehow adults (supposedly) teach kids that just because someone is rich, smart, athletic, or whatever, that doesn't give them reason to behave poorly. But when it comes to adults, apparently that's all thrown out because some people make "great products" or "great plays".

In my opinion, being nice and empathetic matters much, much, much more than someone coming up with some great idea or technology. Technology does not make this world a better place, despite the mantra, and lack of empathy makes this world a rather terrible place.

McNealy a narcissistic egomaniac? And having been around Jobs in person, that's not the impression at that time, more like headstrong focus primarily, with interpretations thereof all over the place, evidently.

McNealy is the one I knew the least about, but when just another billionaire describes themselves as a "raging libertarian" (big surprise that is) and does things like say "you have no privacy. get over it." and openly supports Donald Trump, one has to wonder where their empathy is.

"Employees say Alex Kipman, Tom Keane, and Terry Myerson are three of Microsoft's 'golden boys' whose value to the company has shielded them from allegations of misconduct."

I saw the title and immediately thought of Alex.

The fish rots from the head.

Microsoft has always been a criminal culture*. Many have tried to fix that. All have failed.

* Microsoft has probably been sued every year of its existence, for some nastiness or other. The list of their criminal actions is long and varied. (Search for yourself, it's all out there on the web.) But they have friends in high places.

Windows still makes up 95% of the workstation market. A lawsuit, even if it wins, would only take a small nip out of this conglomerate. Only a mass boycott would force them to change.

If this is how Microsoft, a spotlit brand, behaves, imagine how unfortunately common the bad behavior is for hole in the wall businesses that no journalist has heard of.

Not people I'd want to work with but surprised how tame the alleged mis-behavior is, wasn't worth reading.

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