Dutch government to admit to institutional racism at Tax Authority
nltimes.nl
nltimes.nl
"Study: Ethnic minorities less likely to find work in Netherlands than Dutch convict":
https://nltimes.nl/2017/07/06/ethnic-minorities-less-likely-...
While it doesn’t have to surprise /you/, the victims are used to racism so they aren’t surprised either.
However, it definitely upsets them because they’re discriminated against and negatively affected, while you are not.
If you’re from up north, i.e. not southern Africa then you will most likely suffer discrimination.
So yes, it’s not a particularly Dutch disease, it happens everywhere, including for example Mexico where Mexicans are preferred over foreigners in the great majority of jobs.
The US is more an exception to this where we’re welcoming of foreigners by and large —with exceptions of course.
Compared to most other developed countries, The United States has a surprisingly permissive immigration policy. Have you seen the requirements to immigrate legally to a country like Switzerland, Australia, Japan, or Israel? The trouble is that so many people want to immigrate to the US - and there’s no feasible way to just let everyone in - the waitlist is massive. We even have a lottery system, where most other nations demand an above average net worth and some kind of in-demand skill. Despite all of this, to some it seems “draconian” that we don’t just rubber stamp everyone who shows up wanting to get in.
>” the rise of an authoritarian political party.”
I know what you’re alluding to, but both the Republican and Democratic parties have been around since the 1800’s. And, I gaurantee you their modern view on immigration is far more welcoming than how these parties treated immigration in the past.
However, the US is the only country I have seen where the integrated immigrants refer to themselves as Americans and are proud to be Americans almost nationalistically.
When I go over to Canada, the non-American immigrants, refer to themselves as Canadian-X, e.g. Canadian-Chinese, Canadian-Pakistani, Canadian-Cameroonian, etc.
A majority ethnicity does not excuse racism. If anything it makes it worse.
Note there are many Dutch people who are ethnically from North Africa or other non-white regions and they are systematically discriminated against. Netherlands treats white British citizen in Netherlands who can’t speak Dutch better than a Dutch person who looks Moroccan.
Oh no, not anymore. That age is long over, since 9/11 or even before (9/11 was the trigger I suppose). Also, Portugal and USA have a more progressive drugs policy than we (NL) do.
Same prime minister also deletes daily his personal official communications :-)
"Dutch government resigns over child benefits scandal": https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/15/dutch-governme...
"Dutch PM has been deleting text messages daily for years"( Dutch): https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/premier-rutte-w...
I don't feel that's still very homogenous.
It sounded like you pointed at the supposed homogeneity of the Netherlands as if it were an excuse.
Because it's sort of a public secret that if you hail from one of those countries which joined the EU in the 21st century, you're going to be looked at with suspicion. I suppose it has something to do with the type of people who went to the Netherlands for work right after that was made much easier, but nevertheless it's there.
Ah so then NL shouldn’t allow other Europeans in either? Or is this opinion only about non-white people.
Either way, the Dutch should’ve thought of that before colonising and enslaving other countries. And then importing slaves to their “Dutch only” land. Quite odd.
How do you prove these things are caused by socioeconomic factors? At a minimum we have nowhere near the genetic understanding to control for those aspects. At a higher level, human society, culture, and the systems created by it are infinitely complex. Grouping people on 1 axis then saying the reason for this grouping is “socioeconomic” seems…optimistic at best.
There are so many reasons one racial grouping may be disparately impacted by something. We should focus on fixing the downsides of that impact for all people, not asking why X arbitrary category we came up with doesn’t match Y (because the answer to question is far beyond our technical ability).
And our metric of success cannot be “x group more affected” - if we make that our metric, we’ll find a way to hit that target, correct or not.
Enacting a policy without race in mind, then have that policy impact one race more than another is not racist unless the intent was specifically to oppress a given group. Are laws against killing racist, even though some groups are disproportionately represented in the statistics?
Intent matters.
Obviously someone who intends to do harm is worse than someone who doesn't, but hopefully, you realize that people can do bad things unintentionally, and that outcomes are just as important as the intentions that led to them.
Also you cannot apply US or CA values to the rest of the world.
They changed it to a native sounding last name and were able to integrate into society.
However, on her side of the family, some of the relatives choose to go back to the old last name, so when we have reunions there is a mix of people with the native and original last name.
What makes me most hopeful: These investigations and reporting demonstrates a functioning democracy is able to audit itself -- either internally or externally via media. Years ago, I had a Japanese co-worker. We were discussing recent news events in Australia. For whatever reason, Australia was in one of those mini-bubbles of political corruption. To him, it seemed like everyday was some new corruption in Australia! He asked me -- in all seriousness: "Is Australia a corrupt country? Look what we see in the news." I am not Australian, but I mentioned that it was positive the gov't and media was investigating and being transparent about it. That part was the most important to me. In the end, he seemed satisfied with my explanation -- and not excusing the scandal.
It's part of a larger problem in the Netherlands. There is a lot of segregation in the Netherlands based on social class and education level. A Dutch person immediately judges someone's social class based on looks -- clothing, tattoos, obesity, hairstyle, et cetera. And lower social classes are predujiced against.
And people with non-Western, especially Moroccan or Turkish names are recognized as immigrants and automatically thought of as lower class. People with Western foreign names are thought of as "expats" and mentally put into the highly educated / high social class group.
Yes, foreigners must adapt, but I hope that over time as Dutch society becomes more integrated with the world, this aspect of Dutch culture will also be weakened. This racism is a side effect of our classism.
Or maybe harder to communicate with?
I dont entirely trust the randomised study for CV'S Because the dutch criminal record system doesn't allow for such discrimination in the first place. When applying for a job that, for example, lets you handle the cash register then you have to apply for a VOG ( Verklaring omtrend Gedrag AKA certificate of conduct )
Which for operating cash registrar you can get your VOG even if you've committed every crime in the book exept if you've previously mishandled money.
https://www.government.nl/topics/identification-documents/qu...
Dutch government is inept at solving problems appropriatly. I dont think the people hurt by the fraud investigations will ever be properly compensated.
Do you think Chinese prefer to hire their own over European-looking people? Or Arabs in the Arabian gulf prefer to hire their own over European-looking people?
"Allen die zich in Nederland bevinden, worden in gelijke gevallen gelijk behandeld".
https://www.ft.com/content/9996a65e-0996-4a08-aa65-041be685d...
https://nltimes.nl/2022/01/25/tax-authorities-used-nationali...
"Solving the Problem of Amsterdam’s ‘Black’ and ‘White’ Schools": https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/amster...
But there is still work to do.
Kids were systematically (over 1100 cases) taken away from their parents based on explicitly racist policies and placed in foster homes. This is a very deep black mark on our history to come.
https://nltimes.nl/2022/05/11/1675-children-removed-parents-...
Genocide literally means "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group"
Nothing of the sort happened. Words and their definitions matter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#Forcibly_transferring...
The mental gymnastics displayed by the government in this scandal, is both hilarious and disgusting.
They want to explicitly differentiate that institutional racism and everyday racism are “different” as if it makes things better - though the former is arguably equally or more harmful as the state has all the power.
Further, they acknowledge there has been discrimination, but do not want to “admit” there was racism - just because it has legal implications. This is exactly like immoral companies settling lawsuits with no admission of guilt, to avoid consequences.
Despicable!