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Comment by walrus01 | Hacker News Reader

Just don't ever give it the wifi password. Drive the TV from a PS4/PS4, xbox series X or home theatre PC. Use the youtube/netflix/amazon video/whatever client software on those platforms.

I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft or sony will keep their operating system patched and free from zero days than some random OS on a TV. And at least they're big enough that their telemetry and data collection practices are documented.

Yes, it's true you can't get much use out of an xbox series x without an internet connection, but at least you know what you're getting yourself into in advance.

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> Just don't ever give it the wifi password.

Unfortunately, that won't stop it from using (local or drive-by) open networks if it wants to, nor will it signal to manufacturers that some of us don't want internet-connected TVs.

If stuck with a smart TV, I would remove or disable the radio module. If buying new, I would look at computer/gaming monitors, commercial displays, a few lesser-known models/brands (e.g. Sceptre), and projectors.

>Unfortunately, that won't stop it from using (local or drive-by) open networks if it wants to,

Unfortunately that's a rumor that can't be substantiated.

You seem to be confusing "what it can do" with "what it currently does". My comment contains no rumor or speculation.

> Just don't ever give it the wifi password

This works for now but Amazon is already working on a way to share messages from devices through echo dots etc in the area. Even your neighbors'.

It's intended precisely for this purpose :( To capture days from those trying to stay under the radar. It's called sidewalk.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the next iteration of TVs will take ads over a data signal over OTA deals with TV stations and display localized ads in programming and in their apps.

It's possible but it would be one way in most locations. But yeah I'm sure it'll be possible. I have it on my list to look for ways to block Amazon sidewalk by the way.

Personally I don't even have cable TV. I never watch live TV anymore. I get all my news from the web (I never liked watching TV for it) and shows I just download or stream.

> take ads over a data signal over OTA deals with TV stations

Isn't that just regular OTA linear tv?

But really, I'm not sure how legal it would be for the stations to mess with what they use that band for and what is distributed.

It's going to come to hardware hacks and Faraday caging our houses to maintain personal control over the devices we purchase. Houses will have to behave like firewalls and you whitelist the device types you want to communicate with by explicitly piping them in, rather than the poor attempt at managing networks in software we have at the moment.

Honestly, a Faraday caged house doesn't sound like a bad idea. Sure, you'll have to install a solution for mobile phone coverage (assuming you want it), but it would help solve a lot of issues like congestion and unwanted parties attacking to your wifi. Even if it's not a perfect cage, if it damped the majority of wireless signals it would probably be enough.

They're going to get more aggressive about putting LTE/5G SIMs into the devices, maybe as eSIMs. That will make it a lot harder to disable their remote monitoring functions.

the equipment will be glued shut too, so if you want to remove the antenna you'll have to take a dremel to the back of the casing and cut out a rectangle in a specific spot so you can snip the small 50 ohm coax going to the LTE antenna too... it'll happen.

We will have to depend on iFixit to tell us what components are where on the motherboard so that we can adequately disable them.

As a Canadian, I'm wondering what would happen if I popped across the border and bought a TV in the US. Would it still connect? Are they paying roaming charges or do they have a plan that covers all of NA?

All the Vancouver Canadians buying stuff at the Bellingham Costco may be the first to find out.

IoT type data plans are not super expensive and they can include roaming.

I’d expect manufacturers to split it by continents so their NA model has roaming in Can, US, Mex. And their EU model has roaming all over the EU because otherwise it’s a stocking nightmare if you can only sell one device in one country.

Already happening. I bought a new excavator, and it has hidden GPS/LTE modem in it. The only way I knew is that the dealer told me to disconnect the battery when parking it, or it'll eventually drain due to the modem. Of course, they only told me after I bought it. It's the new norm. I guess if I miss a payment they'll remotely shut it off?

If it ever connects, then return it. It stopped working.

That's a gross misunderstanding of Sidewalk.

If you read the paper, the goal of Sidewalk is to handle "how do I unlock my smart door" when your power/internet has gone sideways. It's intended for super low bandwidth "please pass this note to this device" type situations.

thinking that amazon and its partners won't inevitably abuse having a backdoor network path for low data rate/telemetry in and out of consumer electronics without your consent (possibly feeding off a neighbor's sidewalk-enabled AP or similar) is a very naive view.

The paper is written by Amazon. Of course they're going to present it as a benefit to the end user.

But I'm personally sure that "keeping visibility on a device the user doesn't want to be connected" is also a goal. I could be wrong but Amazon is just as focused on data collection everywhere as Google.

Perhaps Amazon simply doesn't understand some of us want all our devices to not be connected to their hive all the time. But I'm sure the reason they want this is for their benefit, not ours.

> It's intended precisely for this purpose

Its literally not. Sidewalk is based off LoRa, which has serious bandwidth and duty cycle constraints. Its effectively limited to sub-dialup speeds, which will heavily limit its ability to get OTAs over it, never mind download 4k video ads.

It probably could be used for very limited telemetry, however.

Not ads no, but for tracking consumers it would be more than sufficient. What channel are you watching at what time? That data is extremely valuable.

You may need to explicitly opt out somehow or connect the tv to a dummy network that blocks all traffic. I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided.

>I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided.

To my knowledge I can't find any reliable first-hand accounts of this happening. It's all pseudonymous internet commenters claiming it's happening, or tech news websites reposting said claims. For a phenomena that should be so easy to reproduce (all you need is a smart TV plus a laptop with wireshark), the absence of reliable evidence should be used as evidence against its existence. It's in the same category as "facebook is secretly eavesdroping on your conversations".

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