Any options a company offers me, I'll value at $0. That doesn't preclude my working for them if they have an otherwise compelling offer.
I know the conventional wisdom here is that options never matter, but the reality is that they sometimes do, especially for companies that are experiencing solid growth. I recently made several hundred thousand dollars off my options from a liquidity event, and I hadn't been at the company for a few years.
It's a great perk, even if it doesn't end up amounting to anything.
Options is how you actually make money at startups. The salary is only enough to make sure you can afford to exercise your options regularly and not starve to death in an extremely HCOL area.
If you value options at $0 - just join FAANG and never join a startup.
They are lottery tickets at best. Yes, sure, someone sometimes wins big, but the odds are not in your favor.
If you really do think they're worthless THEN JOIN FAANG.
I would wish you the best of luck, but sounds like you don't need it.
That "carpool as a service" startup might have had a great business strategy up until a pandemic showed up. And if you're spending 8-10 years waiting for a payoff, you only get ~3 shots to pick correctly.
Your lottery ticket remains whether you are working there or not. The only reason not to leave after 4 years is if you are a founder or the company is giving you extremely generous compensation.
I sometimes feel like no one on HN actually enjoys what they do. It's strange.
The worst thing you can do is spend too long at a loser company when you are early in your career. And it often is hard to tell when you don’t have a lot of experience. That’s why rules like “don’t spend more than 4 years at a company” and “don’t put all your eggs in one basket” are good general roles even if you like the company/job. Because you might like the other job just as much and make 10x the compensation if the lottery ticket hits. I have many friends that hopped from jobs they liked to Airbnb circa 2017-2019 and… they are all very happy they decided to get another lottery ticket.
When you are later in your career it’s much easier to pick jobs and companies you want to work for because you know what you want and you now what questions to ask before you join.
If the company is growing so slowly that you could get a meaningful refresher grant, then you should move to another company that is growing faster.
For every one person who got lucky and think it was because they chose well, there are nine you never hear about.
I wouldn’t want to spend years of my life on a 1 out of 10 chance.
You shouldn't value them at $0.
Tons of startups and mid sized companies give you an ok salary and some serious advantages.
Even ex fangs end up there because of those advantages.
FAANG pay was ridiculous, and there are also great things to learn there as well, but I value my startup time much more in terms of my own growth.
Sure, options are how you get rich from a startup, but you dont get rich at a startup by working for one, only by being a founder or an investor.
That's why I work at a FAANG:P startups exist to screw their employees
I’ve written small (<$50k) Series A cheques into companies where employee no. 20 made more than I did. That’s fine. They invested a hell of a lot more and put much more on the line. Options shouldn’t be counted on. They’re high risk. But no need to be that cynical. Plenty of people want the ones they were in the trenches with to win big when they do.
Sorry, I meant on exit. They built up more equity over the years through employment and cashed out. This wasn’t a blockbuster exit either.
Basically, yes.
Most (large majority) of startups can't pay market rate salaries. So if you value options literally at $0, then a startup is only an underpaid overworked job, so skip it.
So to even consider a startup job, you need to mentally give some expected value (probability * value) to those options. The probability is going to be very low, so the potential value needs to be high, i.e. don't join without a significant option grant.
> If you value options at $0 - just join FAANG and never join a startup.
This assumes that people only care about money and not about job satisfaction, mission, team, more scope/control over the company's future, etc. There are many good reasons to join a startup. Making money isn't one of them.
Why not just become The Rock? Dude makes way better money than Google pays.
I got in by doing a slight pivot from software engineering. But I definitely tell a couple of younger relatives who just graduated to do the monkey dance.
I’m older (48) and fell into BigTech via the cloud consulting division - cloud application development. I never had to go through the leetcode grind. But my path was very narrow and I recommend that people go through the leetcode grind.
I’m switching to programming as a full time career now after coding on my own for a long time.
I’m now trying to pivot to getting any meh job and then grind through leetcode in spare time. Vs do the grinding and possibly find myself unable to get a decent job.
Of course I’m not necessarily going for big tech for either first career job. Just as close as possible with the leetcode and hope to be in there after the 1st.
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Will you have to do the leetcode grind if you switch job and want to “level up” as it were to an even better job and company?
From what I understand, for more senior level software development positions, they still put you through coding, system design and behavioral.
If I thought I could pass the tech screening, and then deal with big company bureaucracy I would tomorrow. Instead, I'm a tech generalist who also doesn't mind handling business or selling, and I have a low BS tolerance. I've done ok in small companies over the second half my career, but I certainly made less than big tech.