Hacker News Reader

Comment by josephcsible | Hacker News Reader

If the musicians weren't unionized, wouldn't they all be better off right now since they'd still be employed?

Seems like the base full time wage would have been 24k, with many of the positions changed to part time at 11k/year with no benefits.

So, maybe? McDonald's will likely have better compensation.

https://www.afm.org/2021/09/san-antonio-symphony-musicians-d...

No, they'd be stuck working for not enough money instead of looking for actual livable jobs like they are now and likely have been doing for the duration of the strike.

Stuck?

Can't you look for a new job equally well whether you quit on your own or your union boss ordered you not to work?

Like many professional orchestra members, they likely made much of their income from teaching and other related activities. One of the advantages to being in an orchestra is the recognition it brings in attracting students and gaining employment at summer festivals and universities. However, if the orchestra salary drops too low, it probably isn't worth the time anymore.

It was their choice to kill their exploitative employer. :)

> If the musicians weren't unionized, wouldn't they all be better off right now since they'd still be employed?

Who says they aren't? The people I've known working in the arts very often have multiple jobs, even if one of them is notionally “full time”, usually at least one of the jobs is a personal business. Performers very often are tutors/teachers of the same kind of performance.

What's stopping the entire union from starting their own symphony as a co-op.

I mean there's a lot of unemployed musicians in San Antonio now....

They can drop the baggage (the board of directors), hire a marketing consultant and some ancillary staff, and maybe do other things with the arts in the area.

What's stopping the entire union from starting their own symphony as a co-op.

The AFM won't let them. Members aren't allowed to take gigs which pay less than union-defined minimum rates. In many cases they're not even allowed to donate their services to non-profits; the closest they're allowed to do is to get paid, remit union dues, and donate cash to the non-profit.

The AFM is not god - what's the worst that a union can do, expel a member? And then that member is free to work as he pleases.

Don't you basically sign your life away when you join a union? Couldn't they sue you and maybe even get an injunction against you having that job?

What? I know some US sectors are somewhat locked down by unions, but that typically means there is more than a single union in that field anyway - and I would find it surprising that a union can stop you from playing music around the whole of Texas.

Definitely the scenario you mention is impossible in Europe.

The AFM has pretty much every professional performance job in the country locked down. Getting kicked out of the AFM means giving up their orchestral career.

For this tiny group of people, maybe and even that’s not guaranteed. Not worth giving up collective bargaining power, reasonable hours and benefits for over the long term.

And if this symphony dies and takes its Board of Directors with it perhaps the city of San Antonio can get a symphony and people running it who can actually pay the bills.

Are you hoping the new symphony isn't unionized, or are you saying that after the parasite killed its host, you hope it finds a new healthier host?

You're going to defend an organization that can't stay solvent when it is paying its workers a whopping 25K per year? Really?

As the article points out, Lubbock, a much smaller city, doesn't seem to have a problem with paying their unionized musicians or staying solvent.

short term maybe, long term no. They still have their instruments, people still like music, bankruptcy hurts the owners more than anyone else. Giving your collective bargaining power up for something like this doesn't strike me as smart.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com