Ask HN: Can I start a tech company with mandatory 2 month yearly sabbaticals?

I actually think this isn't a bad idea...

The original meaning of sabbatical was for labourers to take one whole year off after working for seven straight years.

Maybe you should offer something closer to that definition?

Of course, after a year off, it might be hard for the employee to mentally go back and do the same thing for another seven years, but don't forget, as a company you've done without them for 12 months, so it may not be too big a deal if they do decide to leave.

Essentially, you'd be ensuring that MOST of your employees will stay with you for a seven year tenure, which is much higher than most companies would average for their employees.

I'm not good at public maths but I think you'll be paying employees 14% higher than the market rate based on the 1 year paid sabbatical at the end — but don't forget, if the employee leaves after 3 or 4 years, you don't have to pay that 14%.

EDIT: If I were doing this I would probably pay the extra 14% to a trust account each month, which would then be paid out as a salary during the 12 month sabbatical (so their actual salary may be slightly lower than their final year's salary, as they'll have probably received raises during their seven years of employment). The advantage to the employee of doing it his way, is they'll rest assured their salary received during their sabbatical is guaranteed, even if the company gets shut down.

There are businesses that are seasonal. They make the majority of their money at certain points of the year. Companies that are in the vacation industry are very busy during the summer. Retail companies make most of their money towards the end of the year. I'm sure there are plenty more. If you can create a business servicing those sectors you might be able to give people time off during the slow times.

My experience has been that the more we get the more we want. So after a while we stop appreciating what we have and expect more. I bet, after a bit, long sabbaticals are bound to be unappreciated. The last place I worked at had amazing benefits and lots of time off. Yet people would bitch about it not being enough. So I would make long sabbaticals a reward for the individuals rather than an expected benefit for it to continue its intended impact.

You can do whatever you want just know that the market will decide if you can do this. In a few ways:

A. Capital - Investors will be highly skeptical of this approach. Is there a CEO they can invest who does not give people 2 months off? If so, they’ll probably send their money that way.

B. Competition - Your competitors will be delighted to learn that your workforce is 10-15% less active than they are.

C. Recruiting - yes, many will be excited about the prospect of so much time off. But experienced employees will be skeptical of this approach and may see it as a risk. There are also people who gasp do not want to take 2 months off and enjoy working throughout the year.

Again, as leader you are free to do what you want but for every major decision you can ask yourself a simple question - does this help accelerate or slow our revenue?

The first point is definitely true - for sure, this can’t be possible for the first year (or even two) of the startup anyway since we need to get a viable product off the ramp and garner enough interest and hopefully revenue. I agree that we can’t compromise on overall productivity.

Which brings me to the next point which is that I do strongly believe that productivity will not take a massive hit overall - as much as managers like to think engineers are like factory workers assembling a toaster, my personal observation has been that we’d get things done when they are needed (within reason) and would subconsciously pad out the time when we can afford to.

A long sabbatical would make me immensely happy and I think more focused when I’m actually working. Importantly if we all prepare for the same full on break that’s scheduled that’s more manageable than individual engineers taking time off at random intervals and having everyone cover for them.

Just still spitballing so for sure all comments are appreciated.

Ok I would encourage you to Ask other engineers if they feel like taking 2 months off would affect their focus on a long term project.

Reacclimating to work after a long weekend is hard for some people. 60 days off can be mentally jarring for others.

Startups move quickly. Coming back and finding out what’s going in the company, the people, this all adds complexity.

Finally, not everyone is an engineer making $320k and suggesting 2 months off. Some people genuinely enjoy work and don’t want to take more time off. What works for you as an engineer might not be what others in sales, product, marketing and operations want.

I might feel like I do better work high it doesn’t mean I’m going to subject my team to a mandatory daily edible.

All that said if you end up starting a company and are taking 2 months off in cycles - there will be people who don’t do this and will wonder “where is our boss / when are they going to show up?”

At the least you’ve convinced me that some engineers will find the concept quite unacceptable. Probably sufficient to table it as an idea I think! Thanks I suppose lol.

I think that most people would find it hard to schedule two months of continuous vacation, since their spouses/partners would not be able to take vacations on the same schedule. Also, many people care for children or elders, and their schedules are constrained by these responsibilities.

As someone's employer, you shouldn't presume to know what vacation schedule is best for their mental health or productivity. Some people may be happier if they can take shorter breaks more often. If you want to give your employees two months of vacation time, that's fine, but let them decide how and when to make use of those days rather than imposing your own preferences on them.

We will still have all legally mandated vacations available for sure (which is definitely limited in the US but still). I don’t see any other way around it. But I assume we will only have the legally mandated minimums in this regard. One possibility I am thinking is If the position they’re applying for allows them to work when most of the company is off (extremely productive IC or product manager for example) then they could flexibly take the sabbatical whenever.

As for matching schedules, children already have summers off, sure the spouses might not have the time off but doesn’t mean this can hurt? It’s only on top of standard vacation time.

The education sector has found a way to make it more or less work, though of course many teachers/professors/school staff work through the summer (but not necessarily on their academic year duties). It helps that the rest of society has an expectation that students and teachers will have summers "off," so supporting industries can work around that particular schedule. You might want to consider aligning the mandated sabbaticals you mention with school breaks.

One downside of a long 2 month sabbatical is the startup cost of getting back into the productive mode could take some time as things would be forgotten. I suspect there is a inverted U for productivity and length of break in your job. A better strategy could be to have weekly break every quarter or so. Employees will have a pulse on their work and aligns well with others who have to match the break schedule.

This sounds like a good idea as well!

Depends on your industry and product. Essentially the characteristic time of your product must be much larger than 2 months.

Intel has something like this, but I think it's every 3 years. Google it

I moved to the EU from the US for this reason. Slight pay cut, but no regrets at all.