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Comment by redbar0n | Hacker News Reader

With the amount of terrorist attacks that have been conducted in subway stations, especially in London, it seems quite irresponsible to publicize these.

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Do you really think that the couple hours it saves by having these maps to hand instead of a terrorist going to the station and making their own map of the public space is going to mean the difference between an attack and no attack? Get real. Let’s just get rid of all maps then hmm? Security risk.

While I don’t agree with the sentiment that it’s irresponsible to publish these maps, I don’t think you should underestimate how lazy the average person is, including terrorists. It often baffles me how utterly ineffective most terrorists are (which I guess , among other things, comes down to “bad”/lazy planning), only managing to kill maybe a handful of people, if even that.

Most people wouldn’t be very interested in being so nerdy as to map out the London Underground. Why would most terrorists be any different?

You are not wrong, but my understanding is that... this is the very reason some NYC subway maps are not made public.

No, but it could make the difference between a poor attack and a very effective attack. The point being that subways are particularly vulnerable points.

Do you think that all maps and other forms of architectural or engineering schemas should be widely publicised, without individual regard to their potential for exploit?

These diagrams were based on some provided by TFL in response to a Freedom of Information request. They redacted areas where "disclosure of the information requested would be likely to adversely affect the safety and security of TfL employees and members of the general public." [0]

[0] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/maps_of_public_corrid...

Fantastic! That means they at least have made _some_ ethical editorial decisions, and didn't conform to some naïve conception that all information should be widely publicized regardless of the potential for adverse effects.

It also means that one could make one's own survey, and then compare the differences between it and the publicly-available maps, which may highlight potential points of interest.

Can you expand on what exactly the threat might be? How is a 3D map more dangerous than a 2D map? And these are public spaces, it’s not like it’s some secret information.

A threat actor might rapidly scan potential targets to optimize for points of congestion, escape routes etc. If they had surveyed the area manually, they'd likely be captured on CCTV cameras, which would later aid investigators in tracking them down.

I was not specifically talking about 3D vs. 2D, btw.

Which terrorist attacks in London subway stations are you referring to? I've lived here for more than 30 years and can't think of a single terrorist attack in an tube station.

Are you being pedantic? Because obviously they set off the bombs while in the tunnel between stations rather than at a station?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

How is that being pedantic. This dude is worried about maps of STATIONS, what does that have to do with bombs being set off in a TRAIN?

> can't think of a single terrorist attack in an tube station

> an explosion occurred on a District line train at Parsons Green Underground station

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsons_Green_train_bombing

Is that a concrete-enough example?

I don't think the maps are an issue either, but you pretending to be ignorant that they are attacked, and that lines between them are attacked, is weird.

I'm not pretending trains aren't being attacked and it's incredibly disingenuous that you need to pretend that's what I'm saying.

What I'm saying maps of STATIONS have nothing to do with TRAINS being attacked. It seems like you think trains and stations are the same thing, and that's something you'll need to figure out for yourself.

You can just admit you forget about these attacks if you want.

I've lived in London for 30 years. My partner was 2 trains ahead of the one that detonated at Edgware Road. You're a toy soldier and you can just admit you don't know the difference between trains and stations.

> can't think of a single terrorist attack in an tube station

> detonated at Edgware Road

Said it yourself!

Jesus Fucking Christ.

It was in a train carriage of a train which had just left Edgware Road station. We use the label "Edgware Road" to identify which of the bombings it was.

I'm genuinely embarrassed for you at this point.

Just search for "Underground" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in...

or go directly here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_the_London_Undergro...

OK, so basically no attacks on stations. That's what I thought.

Maybe you didn't ctrl+f search for "station" in those articles? If you're going to act pedantic, you ought to at least have your facts straight.

Yeah, nothing of consequence in the last 30 years. Appreciate your overwrought concern, but Londoners aren't too worried about maps of stations being public lol.

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