Beauty is free. Urban infrastructure is not.
Now, what was your point again?
Now, what was your point again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/03/05/sprawl-costs-the-publ...
The point is exactly that: nice things (especially in the public arena) don't have to cost much - and this cost doesn't have to privatized.
The places to live, by themselves, have all the infra we need. The problem is the lack of local jobs.
So, I'm sorry if you are disappointed because I am not giving you a "reason" to state that life in suburbia is so bad. All I can say is that I have (briefly) lived in the Boston suburbs and I've lived in cities of many different sizes before and - looking in retrospect - no place gave me a sense of hopeless dread as much as Newton.
Yes, of course my first statement was "subjective" in the sense that it can not be formally measured or defined.
Thing is, just like "beauty is subjective" but we all can still find things (and beings) with qualities that transcend time and cultures to the point of considering it objectively beautiful, there are some aspects of living in "traditional" urban environments that will never be replicated in American Suburbia, which makes life in Suburbia objectively worse.
What "this" do you mean?
This thread started because of a claim to the effect of "you can only have nice things if you pay for it", as saying that life in the suburbs is "ugly" because it is more cost-effective in comparison with big American cities. That is what I was responding to.
You came after and now you are demanding some "logical" way to establish what's better... what for? My point was only that even (relatively) poor places can be better than suburbs. And yes, "better" in subjective ways. I did not start this claiming I have key metrics that "prove" how life in suburbs is so horrible.
> You need to stop looking at this with emotion
Why?! We are talking about what we value when deciding where to live. Don't you take your emotions in consideration when thinking about this?
> and apply some critical thinking.
If I were applying "critical thinking", I'd be giving you the laundry list of "reasons" against North American suburbia: the car-centric dependency, the "soccer mum" culture that exists because kids can not be independent and are not able to do anything without a parent driving them around, the absurd zoning laws that makes all houses stupidly big and expensive (not to mention ugly), the lack of a "third-place", the classism of most suburbanites, the ever-growing expansion that it requires to keep cities financially solvent...
But this was not what my comment was about. I don't even want to get into this discussion because it is as boring as the people who will try to nitpick and rationalize their life at suburbia...
You clearly have a lot of emotion as it relates to suburbia. Is this politically motivated perhaps? That would explain the vitriol.
- When I don't give "reasons" to explain my distaste of American suburbs, it's "completely subjective".
- When I do give "reasons", it is "vitriol" that you want to dismiss as "politically motivated".
You are acting like someone called your baby ugly, but you really can't argue because you know deep down it's true. In situations like these, it's better to just own it and say that you love it anyway instead of trying to find ways to discredit those who said what you didn't want to hear.
Have a fire in my backyard, because I don't have one Watch my kids ride their ATV around the yard Watch the kids play on the swingset in my backyard, or the trampoline Let the kids run around the neighborhood Wash my car in my driveway Work on my car in my driveway Take a tablesaw out of the shed to make a cornhole set Play cornhole in my yard. Watch the kids play in a sprinkler in my back yard Go stimming in the neighbors pool next door Watch the kids ride a bike outside Not put in a new drivers side window because it gets broken every 6 months Not worry about having a place to park my car Not hear sirens all night long Light fireworks off in my yard Let the dogs around around in my yard *Put a zipline in my yard
If you feel so inclined to respond to those, I'll add more for you. I lived in a city for a while. I got mugged, my car was constantly broken into, at least 1 person dies every from a gunshot wound, many more are wounded. I can't just send the kids to go play outside. Parking is a bitch, and before you jump on that, cars are never, ever going away. I will always own a car.
You must know deep down that you're trying to shove your personal preference down others throats and claim your preferences are objectively better than anyone else.
Not only is it quite arrogant, its very strange. You like living in a city, that's great. I don't, that's great. To try and claim that it's OBJECTIVELY better is the stupidest fucking thing I've come across all day. I never ONCE claimed suburbia was better, not once. I don't have any reason to jam my preferences down your throat.
None of the negative things you mentioned about city life are "transcendental". They might be common in USA cities, but these qualities are far from universal.
IOW, if your baseline is a shitty city, of course the suburbs are going to seem like a good deal. But have you ever considered what life in a good urban space might be like?
> claim your preferences are objectively better than anyone else.
No. What I am saying is that your basis of comparison is very limited and that you were robbed of the opportunity to experience something better. To make an analogy, you want to engage in a "Budweiser vs Miller Lite" argument, while anyone that had the chance to try "proper" beer will tell you that such an argument is pointless.
To repeat: the argument in the beginning was about "taking the beauty away and selling it back as a luxury" in relation to suburbs vs big cities and "having to pay for nice things". My comment was not against "suburbs" as a matter of preference, but merely to point out the historical, FACTUALLY BAD post-WW2 urban development in North America which destroyed its cities and gave people no other choice but suburban sprawl.