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> I think everyone should strive to move out in their early twenties, and I won't really go out with someone who doesn't have their own apartment and a job.

Why would I do a ridiculous money churning move like that if I don’t have to? Why not instead work and save until I have enough to confidentially and financially save for a house?

Some people might be saving for a house. I would be that a significant portion of the people not growing up are spending money on vacations and "stuff".

A maturity switch flips off in your head when you get your own apartment.

You're not wasting money, you're spending it on learning how to become an adult. Plus you'll be more open to moving to different cities, which is much much easier as a young adult than it is as an older person with obligations

You can't generalize that, or we'd see vastly different outcomes in 'adults' over things like... country or urban/rural.

From my understanding it's simply a lot owed to culture. When I was in my early twenties, Americans tended to buy a house (with the attached mortgage) much more likely because it's a thing you do. In comparison here in Germany, NOBODY (except with very rich parents) would get or even buy a house. Also no one would give you the money for the mortgage in the first place. (Compounded by the fact that we'd typically finish university later than Americans would have their master's, don't even talk about a Bachelor's). Especially in the city, living with your parents until after uni (so around 25-28) was completely normal. Exceptions like going to a different city and getting an apartment notwithstanding.

Well, for my American context, it's the best way to grow up

Once you have to pay your own rent, you quickly understand how the world works. When it comes to dating, I've never had a good experience with someone who was past 25 and wasn't independent.

I got my first apartment when I was 19, and for the most part, I've been on my own ever since.

The typical person I've met who's 30 or whatever and lives with their parents, has a massive entitlement problem. They're simply owed things. Their mom's being mean because their mom wants them to get a job.

> Once you have to pay your own rent,

This doesn’t make sense to me cause you can still live at home and pay rent. That’s a reality for many Americans.

> The typical person I've met who's 30 or whatever and lives with their parents, has a massive entitlement problem. They're simply owed things. Their mom's being mean because their mom wants them to get a job.

It seems you have this notion that anyone still living with their parents at that age doesn’t have a job rather than having a job and saving money for an actual house.

This is based off of the people I've actually met.

I'm not meeting people who are living with their parents so they can save up enough money to buy a house.

Again, this is just based off of my experiences. One of my own uncles never moved out or did anything with his life, unfortunately there's just a lot of people like this.

I have had a very unique life, and according to the lessons I've learned I'm extremely selective of who I'm around. If you're in your late 20s or 30s and you live with your parents, I'm going to have major doubts about your maturity. This is fine, not everyone is going to be attractive to me, and vice versa.

The biggest issue is when you deal with someone who's used to having mommy and daddy take care of them, they'll want someone new to take care of them. I've known guys like this, I've known girls like this.

I agree. My wife never lived alone and her mom took care of her financially. She has no idea of the responsibilities of running a household, paying bills, etc. She thinks she should spend her money on fun stuff because that's all she's ever needed to do with it. She also wants a bigger house that we can't afford.

There's no doubt in my mind that living independently is necessary for someone to grow up, and that too comfortable a life removes the desire to be independent.

I'd lay the blame more on the parents then (or maybe no one, really?), and yeah, some people need to learn this only when they move out - others don't have to move out because that's clear from the start.

Simply not buying this argument, it's nowhere near necessary - maybe it's just a good reality check for people who weren't really independent or 'grown-up' before.

I don't know of anybody who has been coddled at home and had a good understanding of money and thw true scope of responsibilities before moving out on their own. Certainly some are better equipped than others, but unless you've had to deal with all the minutiae and legal stuff, it's unlikely they really know.

What location did you find, if you don't mind saying?

No problem, I moved to Chicago instantly cut my cost of living by about 50%.

Met the first girl I've ever gone out with for any significant amount of time, and I no longer had to drive.

But you have to be the one who makes this choice. I had to stop using social media since I'd have jerks tell me I was the problem. No no I'm just not compatible with LA.

Even LA used to be a much better place to live, in my early twenties. It was still affordable and people are nicer. You can still find a two bedroom in Chicago for $1,500, within walking distance from a metro line.

Good luck finding a two bedroom under $3000 within distance of a Metro line in LA, and finding a job within walking distance of another Metro stop.