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Comment by itsmemattchung | Hacker News Reader

> Noticing how people get stuck is a super power, and one that many great tech leads (and yes, managers) rely on to get big things done

Taking it one step further. Noticing how you — yourself — get stuck is a superpower. But it's hard...really hard.

When I get stuck on troubleshooting an issue, I can sometimes fall in this trap that my wife calls the "blackhole." I obsess over it. I cannot rid the problem from my mind. My 2.5 year old even sees it in my eyes ; she'll glance up at me, wondering where I am.

Before reaching this "blackhole" state, I can start to feel when I get tunnel vision.... at which point, I distance myself from the problem.

Hands off the keyboard.

Go for a walk.

And almost EVERY damn time, I'm able to solve the problem easily. Just needed a fresh pair of (my own) eyes, a moment to get "unstuck".

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>Before reaching this "blackhole" state, I can start to feel when I get tunnel vision.... at which point, I distance myself from the problem.

I learned to do this as well after many late nights of making no progress, only to basically solve the issue in the shower or on the way to work the next day.

I definitely feel its one of the lessons I learn over and over again. The brain has a great way to convince us: "Just a little more longer... you'll figre it out.

Sometimes grit is just NOT the answer.

This is so, so true. At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn.

Despite experiencing the "shower solution" repeatedly over the years, I still cannot get myself to let go and take a step back until I'm literally too exhausted to continue.

When I'm thinking clearly, it's obvious the optimal answer is "take a break". But when I'm "in the stuck", taking a break seems like the worst possible answer. Every. Time.

> At this point, I'm not sure it's a lesson I'll ever learn.

Same here. I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes so ridiculously orthogonal to the actual problem that I was embarrassed for myself.

We're so convinced consciousness is doing the solving that more is always better.

Winner.

There must be some psychological or clinical term for this: to be stuck in some fixated state that prevents forward progress unless a break is actually taken.

It's one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A book on programming if I've ever read one.

I've heard it being called Focussed Mode and Diffuse Mode, as described here - https://fs.blog/focused-diffuse-thinking/

Bret Victor links to this book called Psychology of Invention in the Mathematical Field, which talks a lot about this too - http://worrydream.com/refs/Hadamard%20-%20The%20psychology%2...

It may be that "being stuck" is "uploading the problem and interconnections"... a necessary pre-condition for the walk, the shower etc to work.

It could be that one is stuck longer than necessary for uploading... or it could be that one is only able to let go when uploading is complete...

What evidence would show which it is?

You're on to something here.

If I had some signal that indicated "sufficient information uploaded, algorithm running" it'd be easy to stop. But the (obvious) problem is that signal is, usually, the discovery of the solution. Which happens well after all the being stuck.

There is something comforting about accepting that banging my head against a wall might just be a requirement of figuring the thing out, though.

"Banging your head" usually means lots of trial and error, that is all error. But beyond uploading information, every experiment creates new information. ("I haven't failed - I've discovered 1,000 ways that won't work!" https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/31/edison-lot-results/)

When the search space is exponential, with too many combinations to try, pruning off a branch is enormously helpful (and perfectly harmless... provided the solution doesn't happen to lie on that branch - those are my most stuck times).

One signal is when I can't think of anything else to try - that means I've extracted all the information I can. The trouble is, I'm pretty good at thinking of things to try.

There have been plenty of times for me where I was like "oh I'll stop for now, hopefully the answer will come in the shower" or while I'm falling asleep or while I'm doing groceries or something, but never does. There goes two weeks, no progress. Eventually I have to sit down, focus, and think.

So it's not a lesson I've learned, but I don't think it's a lesson I should learn either.

At the first sign of inhibited progress I go do something else. It's like a reflex action now. It's almost painful how much I have to rely on my subconscious mind to develop software. Conscious mind stops working optimally...have to quit. It's not worth energy expenditure or stress.

My office used to be right by the local art museum, and I was a member. Whenever I felt stuck, I'd go take a half hour to look at art, and usually a solution would quickly come to mind.

I'm seriously intrigued by how the unconscious mind works as it relates to problem solving. Anybody here have recommendations to literature that digs into this beautiful phenomenon of taking breaks/walks resulting in the answer manifesting itself?

Barbara Oakley talks about it in a Mind for Numbers:

“I generally liked to work on my more difficult subjects, like math, in the morning, when I was fresh. I still practice this approach today. I have some of my best mental breakthroughs in the bathroom and shower—it’s when I take my mind off the subject that the diffuse mode is able to work its magic.”

It's not scientific literature, but I got the inspiration from the book "Pragmatic Thinking and Learning".

I'm trying to gather thoughts on how to approach problem solving or long task in a way to chunk steps just right to match my natural stamina.

There are a few things that make working ok if not delightful:

- generating ideas to try

- having an idea of the space covered

- keeping track of progress (even a well marked dead end feels good, it's done work) .. bookmarks in a way

- placing little context notes on bookmarks so when you jump in you're ready to plug your mind in more easily

- crafting a bed to try an idea with very low friction. Take a good amount of time to devise your bench/lab and then iterate smoothly.

- all of this with the notion of quickly converging toward what's good and trim what's not

I'm failing hard at it right now but I still believe it's one good way.

My problems get unstuck in bed, in the languishing between waking and getting out of bed.

I think we mull over things when we sleep and wake up with answers... as long as we don't let them dissipate like a dream.

related and interesting - the sleep doctor david walker mentioned was that when we're learning something physical skill, sleep causes lots of sped-up simulation, and we wake up better at the skill.

This is why I start wordle in the morning, and if I don't feel "close" after 3 guesses, I put it away until the evening.

this sounds much less stressful than my wife and I doing it before bed every night and realizing most nights "oh shit it's 11:45 we have to do wordle in the next 15 minutes!"

Thank you for the reminder! I didn't do the Wordle this morning and would have missed it today if not for your comment :)

I also like to go for walk outside, and otherwise to take a break from it. It does not always help, but often it does help. (I think it is not quite as close as "almost every time", but it does help.)

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