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Comment by YeGoblynQueenne | Hacker News Reader

The OP pointed out that "Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks, Armenians, etc. were brutally supressed and massacred many times."

Your comment implied this wasn't true: "If we were that bad as you said in your comments, how would they preserve their language, religion and their identity ?"

So then I pointed out that, yes, the Ottomans were "that bad" and they did routinely massacre Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Armenians, etc.

What are we still disagreeing about? It's not clear to me.

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There is a slight difference between normal conditions vs war conditions. I think in war conditions, both sides take risks and eventually one of them wins. That's how it works.

So we are in agreement that "Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks, Armenians, etc. were brutally supressed and massacred many times". Correct?

Not really. Under normal conditions, they were living in the empire peacefully as they were able to preserve their culture/language/identity.

And then they were brutally massacred, correct?

Your statement is as true as Ottomans were brutally massacred.

So it is true?

>>So it is true?

Asking the same thing again and again doesn't help here. Unfortunately binary statements would not be sufficient to cover all parameters in this context. I hope this helps.

I don't understand what is the problem with "binary statements". Either Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians, etc, were brutally massacred by the Ottomans, or they were not. It shouldn't be that hard to say either "yes" or "no".

If there are other issues to discuss, these can be addressed separately. But a simple true/false judgement should be very, very easy to decide given the wealth of historical information available.

According to the wealth of historical information available, I can find at least two turkish people that were brutally massacred by Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians etc. So yes, Ottomans were brutally massacred.

And Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians and others were also brutally massacred, correct?

Kardas, let me be frank: we can play this game forever and you're not going to convince anyone you're right, you'll just convince everyone you're dishonest.

>>And Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians and others were also brutally massacred, correct? Kardas, let me be frank: we can play this game forever and you're not going to convince anyone you're right, you'll just convince everyone you're dishonest.

well, I'm not trying to convince anyone as I'm trying to make it clear that It is not making sense to be accused of something that we have never ever committed.

Never ever, except for all the times that everybody knows about like Constantinople, Chios, Psarra, Crete, Armenia, Pontiac Greece, Smyrna and the rest of Asia Minor etc etc etc.

The Armenian genocide[a] was the systematic destruction of the Armenian people and identity in the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Spearheaded by the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), it was implemented primarily through the mass murder of around one million Armenians during death marches to the Syrian Desert and the forced Islamization of Armenian women and children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide

Other than that, never ever.

I disagree.

Of course you do.

That’s what I’m saying. It never happened

That's certainly what you are saying. And yet, it did happen:

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide

https://www.britannica.com/event/Armenian-Genocide

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-armeni...

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-was-the-armenian-ge...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/armenian-genocide-photos

No, it did not.

How about all the historical evidence that it did, then?

I don't think any historical evidence exists. People are talking about millions of people but I'm not sure you have ever seen one million people at one place.

There's plenty of historical evidence, some of it described in the links I posted above.

Links were not invented during early 1900s. Show me some concentration camps, death camps etc. killing 1 million people is not easy and I'm almost sure that you have never seen 1 million people at any place at any time given. So, there is no evidence.

All you have to do to see evidence is to read the links I posted above.

Btw, the consistent denial of genoicde has now borne fruit and Turkiye is again accused of participating in a modern genocide, that of the Yazidi people:

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/jul/05/turkey-should-fa...

This is what happens when you deny history.

>>>All you have to do to see evidence is to read the links I posted above. Btw, the consistent denial of genoicde has now borne fruit and Turkiye is again accused of participating in a modern genocide, that of the Yazidi people: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/jul/05/turkey-should-fa... This is what happens when you deny history.

I disagree. I'm not sure you know how Wikipedia works. Unfortunately, it is not a reliable source.

The Armenian Genocide really happened and there is strong historical evidence for it. See the links I posted above.

I wonder for how long you are going to continue denying it. My guess is we'll be here for a few more months, or even years.

That should be really interesting to watch.

Hey,

I disagree. The G word has never happened. There is no such thing called historical evidence. Please refer the following fact sheet [0].

I’m not denying it as it never happened. But, yeah, I will be standing by my nation till the last spill of my blood.

[0]: https://www.mfa.gov.tr/the-armenian-allegation-of-genocide-t...

Your source is the Turkiye ministry of foreign affairs. They are not an impartial source.

Impartial parties like e.g. the United States recognise the historicity of the Armenian Genocide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_t...

And of course there is plenty of historical evidence for it. I point you again to the wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for citations elsewhere on Wikipedia. As a user-generated source, it can be edited by anyone at any time, and any information it contains at a particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or simply incorrect.

You also perpetuated a hellish nationalistic flamewar in this thread. I know how easy it is to get provoked by provocative comments, but it's totally unacceptable and against the site guidelines for people who disagree to keep going at each other like this—regardless of how wrong the other person is or you feel it is.

I'm not going to ban you because you don't have a history of doing this and you make good contributions in other areas. But for heaven's sake please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

(In case anyone's worried about bias, the reason for banning one account and not another has nothing to do with which side of a flamewar they were on. It's because of the history of the two accounts, not just in this thread but in other threads, and previous warnings.)

I'm sorry, and I'm an idiot, and there is no excuse in being provoked. It's a personal failing. And I'm guilty of provoking the other poster also, it takes two to tango.

I want to make excuses now, but I won't. I'm an idiot. Sorry sorry sorry.

We've banned this account for taking HN threads into nationalistic flamewar as well as breaking the site guidelines badly in other ways (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32012266).

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

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