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Comment by iradik | Hacker News Reader

The only well-known language worse than C to start with would be C++. We used this in high school AP Computer Science before they switched to Java. Spent about 80% of our time learning pass by reference, templates, and about segfaults. The other 20% was on algorithms. Made programming seem horribly complex.

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Don't knows about you, but I wouldn't consider someone a "programmer" unless the had a solid grounding in pass by value vs. reference, generic programming, and hardware memory protection mechanisms. Yeah, and algorithms are important too.

Yes, but not C++

I actually don't disagree with your opinion: I wouldn't pick C++ as an environment to introduce programming either. But your reasoning was frankly awful. If those are the reasons you think C++ is "too complicated", then you really need to spend some more time learning C++.

You're right, those aren't good reasons for why C++ is awful. I think ERR i give up. You're right my whole rationale is pretty confusing. The class wasn't so bad in reality. We didn't really look deeply into the horrible "features" of C++.

Ah yes, the "no true scotsman."

A programmer is someone who programs for a living. I program for a living. I have never programmed in C, have no idea what generic programming is, and I really couldn't care less about hardware memory protection.

My first "real" job was with a software company, in the QA department. I got lucky getting that job, as I had no requisite skills. Anyway, I wanted to learn how to program. I took a C class at a local university. I remember, vividly, being so frustrated that I was in tears when trying to learn about pointers and recursive functions. Very basic to me now, but at the time, extremely frustrating - I simply didn't understand the concepts. I reached out to a few of the developers at that company and they helped me. I'm not a stud programmer, not by any stretch of the imagination, but I've made a good living over the years - and I have not once programmed in C since that class. BUT --- the things I learned in that class have helped me tremendously. For example, it helped me when I was programming in VB and needed to tap into raw winapi functions. A combination of C programming basics, along with OS basics, will get you a LONG way when trying to understand and solve challenges you'll come across in "normal" programming challenges.

Ok, I give up. The class was great! Sorry Mr Khan!

Really I just hate C++. The class was pretty good and bug hunting skills are not something to take for-granted. That's for sure!

I wasn't trying to argue with you, rather I was trying to point out that some good can come from the C/C++ path. I've had a lot of people ask me which language to use as a starting point in programming, and not once have I said C/C++ -- maybe, upon reflection, I should have??

Then I blame the course curriculum and your teachers, not the language.

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