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Comment by pydry | Hacker News Reader

They made a it crystal clear what it would have taken to prevent that and what they demanded wasnt even all that unreasonable - respect minsk 2 - something they already agreed to, dont join the NATO gang and cede crimea. All 3 were rejected.

The west refused to even accept the result of a landslide referendum whose veracity was confirmed by our own polls.

It's a good thing respect for democracy isnt a cornerstone of what we stand for coz one of those three demands was just "respect a democratic vote". Imagine the optics of pensioners dying of cold in the German winter because the Americans rejected democracy.

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Russia doesn't get to conquer territory and demand the ceding of other countries territories to them.

Russia needs to be dismantled military and ideally should be denuclearised they have proven they cannot play at the table with adults.

This is a rough war for everyone, but its a war that unfortunately needs to happen, Russia must have a decisive defeat or they will continue behaving how they have been for years now which is bad for the entire world.

What you refer to as the adults is a vicious empire that imprisons its journalists, supports brutal dictatorships and topples democratically elected governments and invades on a whim committing war crimes. This is our gang - the "good guys", who just so happen to mimic Russia's worst excesses when push comes to shove.

Now our gang is fighting a proxy war with another nuclear gang because we cant deal with the result of a democratic vote to join Russia in a place that speaks exclusively Russian.

And we're being asked to freeze to death out of sympathy.

Im not sure theres any evidence that the 'good guys' you seem very keen to compare to the Russians, raped and killed children, mass looted everywhere they went and deported or executed everyone over a certain age in regions.

The Russians aren't soldiers like the west expects.

Im sure your opinion would be different if it was your friends and family be executed and raped.

This is all pretty routine in most wars. E.g. for every action taken by Russia in Ukraine we have condemned with fervor (e.g. "bombing a hospital") western media have tried to justify the same behavior in Israel ("but there were militants there!").

In Yemen we dont even really try to justify the war crimes we just ignore them and keep sending weapons in Saudi's war of aggression.

The war crimes committed by Azov since 2014 we are equally indifferent to because hey, it's Russia and those Nazis are good fighters.

This war is purely a clash of empires. NATO are happy to discard all of the principles we purport to represent AND sacrifice the wellbeing of all Europeans even if all we do is give Russia a black eye.

Mass rapes are not 'routine' for most wars. Its an atrocity that is being committed by Russia against Ukraine. Just like how it was an atrocity when other countries mass rapped people.

This war is purely Russias, it is a war of aggression designed to wipe out a cultural, a people, its genocide.

That Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine is unsurprising they already did this before during the USSR with the holodomor.

Russia is solely responsible for this war.

It's lucky that a lot of Europe is happy to sacrifice both its weapons and some of its economy to stop the authoritarian beast just like they did in WW2.

Are you refering specifically to Lyudmila Denisova's rape accusations? They were pretty serious, yeah.

Genocide has quite a high bar. Biden's opinion is currently that what Russia is doing doesnt meet it.

> Are you refering specifically to Lyudmila Denisova's rape accusations? They were pretty serious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_the_2022_Ru... just pick anyone of them.

> Genocide has quite a high bar. Biden's opinion is currently that what Russia is doing doesnt meet it.

Genocide is certainly a high bar and the Russians are certainly doing their very best to meet it, its arguable if they are meeting it but per the definition of the UN they are easily meeting it.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

Even without anything else Russia is already doing.

> Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

>just pick anyone of them.

That one is notable because she had zero evidence and said she was doing it to ensure Ukraine got more weapons.

Wikipedia refers to her accusations but leaves the part out where she was fired for doing that.

Your team (Azov) committed rape all the way back in 2014, as documented by OHCHR: http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRM...

Yeah her accusations are only part of it theirs plenty of independent accusations on their.

Why did you need evidence anyway according to you mass rape is a standard part of war no?. So we can expect the Russian armed forces to mass rape in every war yes?.

Democratic vote? Are you high. They executed and disappeared any opposition.

And which 'adults' are going to do the dismantling?

I'll wait.

This kind of aggressive know-nothing 'naivety on the warpath' is all too common at the moment. It might get us all killed.

Not even going to try engagement with you, your replies either lack any sort of critical analysis of the facts or you’re acting in bad faith.

Putin has lied since day 1. His words betrayed his motives and the facts about his actions are clear to everyone. Russia under Putin is a terrorist state. And the sooner the west fully isolates them fully the better.

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