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Comment by tremon | Hacker News Reader

doing anything for 12 hours a day

But there's a problem with multifunctional devices like computers and smartphones: it's highly unlikely he's doing the same thing for those 12 hours. Obviously I don't know exactly what your son is doing, but I think it's highly unlikely those 12 hours are filled with a single activity. And in that case, grouping all those activities as "spending time on phone" is less helpful than you think.

Taking my adult self as an example: on work days, I use the computer for more than 12 hours a day, easily. That time is divided between coding, research, monitoring existing systems, communicating with team members, having meetings, reading news sites (for various definitions of "news"), watching movies, and listening to music.

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>> it's highly unlikely he's doing the same thing for those 12 hours

This may seem like a safe assumption but if we abstract to the core of "continually monitoring a loose network of 3+ degrees removed people for fear of missing out" I don't think they are doing anything diverse with their phones. Your own use of a computer is far different: kids and young adults are doing no coding; research (beyond asking Siri random, shallow questions); or monitoring, communicating, meeting, media consumption outside of these social networks. The homogeneous, consumption-focused all-consuming aspects are my real concerns. It's the Fentanyl of the 3-channel TV universe that I grew up with.

That nitpick is a bit like when people say BMI is invalid as an indicator for overweightness because bodybuilders are also categorized as obese by BMI. Except the confusion is impossible in case of a regular person.

Similarly, there can be good reasons for being 12 hours on screens, but it will be obvious and exceptional. Yes an 18 year old may be a successful entrepreneur, video maker podcast host influencer who is reading ebooks for research or sending out emails or editing videos or programming a website in those hours but we are clearly not talking about that, but FOMO social media scrolling.

There can be good reasons for hyperobsessing over a single issue in life, but you better have a damn good reason for it, like being a successful athlete or chess player or e-sport player or whatever. And it will still be a sacrifice that's only worth it if you are truly exceptional and there's a high chance you aren't.

The question is, are those hours bringing an improvement to your life, are they bringing you closer to achieving meaningful life goals or are they a distraction from focus and life organization, and a suppression of quality of life and achievement.

> Yes an 18 year old may be a successful entrepreneur, video maker podcast host influencer who is reading ebooks for research or sending out emails or editing videos or programming a website in those hours but we are clearly not talking about that

Aren't we? I heard the same comments from my parents when I was learning to program and even when I was going to school online.

I think a lot of older folks genuinely don't understand how many different activities are mediated by computers.

I struggle to take anyone seriously who says that "being on your phone" is some sort of enormous problem. "Being on your phone" isn't an activity - complaining about it is like saying that someone's going too many places. If they're driving around to different strip clubs all day, maybe a problem. If the places they're going are their kids' soccer games and doctors appointments and picking up groceries and having dinner with friends, that's perfectly fine.

My phone has basically the entire recorded history of human knowledge. It has the ability to communicate instantly with people all over the world. That's a lot!

I own an ecommerce business, and on a typical day I'll check in on sales via the Shopify app, correspond with customers via Gmail and maybe take some photos to post on my business' social media accounts. I also use my phone to call and text my parents, wife and friends. I probably spend at least an hour every day reading news on my phone. And yeah, sometimes I fritter away time on Reddit.

People love to criticize when they see others on their phones in public, but you know what? If I'm sitting somewhere for a few minutes with nothing to do, I can pull it out, fire off a few emails, and then have a few more minutes to pet my dogs when I get home. My dogs deserve those extra minutes. They're very good dogs.

A phone is a multi-functional tool that can be incredibly useful (or also a way to waste a ton of time), and criticizing people for using that tool without any idea of how or why they're using it is silly.

It seems like there is enough studies and science backing that too much phone use can cause problems — especially doing a lot of multitasking.

I say “seems like” without saying definitively, since I’m not quoting sources. But I’ve seen enough articles/studies come through HN that seem to suggest there is likely a link between phone addiction and things like anxiety, depression, attention span, etc.

Yes, phones are useful for a lot of things, and are in some cases required for doing some functions for business and social connectivity.

But the speed of information being fed and consumed, and the constant context switching can’t be good for us.

E.g. when I view my Twitter feed, I can have 20-40 completely different thoughts go through my head in a matter of minutes. I can’t imagine how that could be beneficial.

> My phone has basically the entire recorded history of human knowledge.

I'd say you're overstating by a large amount the quantity of quality information on the web. Sure there's a lot, but also much is missing and in terms of percentage most of the online content is garbage.

Agreed for the most part. In my case, I use an app on my phone to read books from a filed collection of dozens that I really want to finish at some point. Sure, it might not be great for my eyes, but if my phone is with me most of the time in random places and situations where waiting suddenly comes around here and there, I can plough through lots of literature.

Of course, to a passing observer, it wouldn't look like that. Because most people associate phones with social media scrolling, they automatically assume that's what you're doing with one. My phone thus has one major thing in its favor at least: it's let me read more full blown novels, literature and non fiction tomes than I ever did before having one, and I read a lot even then. Phones aren't an activity by themselves, what thing you use them for is the activity and its nature makes a difference.

Agree. I’d say it’s worse - those hours are sporadic, endless distraction. Every few minutes, a buzz, a ding, something taking you away from whatever else you were doing…

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