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Comment by toomuchtodo | Hacker News Reader

It’s a net benefit that Tesla converts cryptohype into transportation electrification progress by way of magic tokens and fiat.

Those Bitcoin gains might have paid for many a Suoercharger stall!

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You could argue the increased hype they brought to bitcoin offset any carbon offset there cars have produced

Think in systems. Perhaps short term, but also manufacturing capacity and an expanding fast dc charging network builds the machine that builds the machine.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/07/15/tesla-cumulative-sales-...

No, I think long-term these devices will still have pretty poor carbon footprints since they're still packing massive, disposable Lithium Ion batteries, and continue to have such poor aftermarket values. Coupled with the treadmill of new features they're offering, I have a hard time taking your statement at face value.

Okay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The market doesn’t care how we feel. People want cars. Sell them electric cars. Tesla can’t build them fast enough to meet demand. Those vehicle batteries (along with stationary storage batteries) will be recycled at end of life by Redwood Materials into newer, better batteries in 5-15 years. These cars will never burn petroleum, and will get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. The price of refined petroleum will stay high because of no slack in refinery capacity, as capital won’t invest in an industry without a growth future. This further drives consumers to EVs. These are all facts.

Opinion: I can sell my 2021 Model Y for $15k more than I paid for it, and my 2018 Model S for $20k less than I paid for it with 100k miles on it. That’s fairly good value preservation imho.

> Opinion: I can sell my 2021 Model Y for $15k more than I paid for it, and my 2018 Model S for $20k less than I paid for it with 100k miles on it. That’s fairly good value preservation imho.

That’s all cars atm. My 2021 Mazda is also selling for more than I paid

It has been this way historically all of the way back to mid 10s Tesla sales. Only a few years ago did Tesla drop their resale guarantee (when the market fundamentals provided for it versus them backstopping vehicle values).

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/rvg/RVG_Agree...

https://insideevs.com/news/490348/tesla-model-3-resale-value...

https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/...

"the market" won't start really replacing Tesla's vehicles until the value proposition is there. Unfortunately (as you highlighted), Teslas can't be made fast enough to fill the market, and they can't be sold cheap enough to out-saturate the truly awful ICE-vehicles. As long as it's legal to drive grandpa's $400 Buick, people will consistently pick cars that are cheap and destructive. That's just how our market works from a bottom-up perspective, and it's unlikely that Tesla will be pushing owners to keep their cars for 10-20 years like traditional gas guzzlers. So, you're spending $35k on a car that likely won't last you a decade, will eventually and inevitably become outdated or have electronic failure, and will not be serviceable by anyone other than the first-party manufacturer. I'd love to be an eco-warrior as much as anyone else on this site, but there's not even a faint chance I would pick that over a 5-year-old Fiesta I can get for a quarter of the price.

OK, for now, but I imagine 5 year old fiestas will go up in price alot when new ones stop getting made.

And then it will get harder and harder to keep them running. All the while EVs steadily dropping in price. Its a slow burn.

Yeah an electric car future is better than an oil car future. Thinking broader though they still have a large initial carbon impact and any future that depends on cars isn’t really sustainable. I think it takes too much focus off reducing dependence on cars entirely.

Exactly, the problem is incorrectly framed ICE vs. EV. It’s not the type of car, but our lifestyle that is destroying the planet.

We need to be smarter about co2.

We don't price in the real cost of Bitcoin.

Every co2 we put out there without it doing specific work before like smelting or transporting critical goods is co2 we need to remove which we wouldn't otherwise.

It sure is better for Tesla to make cars out of it, calling this whole story a net benefit is just Missleasing.

Bitcoin should not even be on the radar when it comes to co2.

I’m not really following what you’re saying here. Should BTC be more expensive because of the relative CO2 impact?

No, it's value should be 0 because climate externalities are higher than any potential non -speculative value it can provide.