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Comment by mancerayder | Hacker News Reader

NYC has become extremely more hostile to pedestrians in only the last 4-5 years. Now, not only are you on the lookout for cars when crossing, but you have to add e-bikers and cyclists. Both of those often don't honor one way streets, so now you have to look both ways. They don't stop at red lights, so you have to look both ways when you have right of way. They ride on the sidewalk, so you have to be careful when turning a corner. Society loves these vehicles as eco-friendly, and carves out a part of the road for them.

No one carves anything for pedestrians. It's time to leave the city, which now seems left for people in their 20s and people who generally don't care about any order whatsoever.

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Ah yes, bicycles, enemy #1 of walkable cities.

It is a real problem that NYC street design gives so much space to cars while people walking, cycling and scootering are left to fight over the scraps. GP is correct that things are getting harder although I think they are wrong to blame individual behaviors instead of faulty infrastructure.

But there are bike lanes available. And markings that say yield to pedestrians. And lights for bikes in some cases. These things are generally completely ignored, leaving the pedestrian with the burden of watching everyone else.

It's fine to have a preference for a bike-friendly city over a car-centric one, but one has to consider that almost any vehicle is going to be dangerous to a pedestrian, not just cars. Would you feel comfortable with an older member of your family taking a walk on a Sunday while trusting e bikers not to bowl them over turning around a corner on the sidewalk, going the opposite way on a one-way street, or running a red light?

> But there are bike lanes available.

"Available" is a strong word. There are many streets in NYC that lack them, and Casey Neistat's infamous video on bike lanes illustrates what happens in places where they exist.

I am already jaded to the point of having no trust in people to adhere to lights or signs when they believe it is in their interest to do otherwise. Anyone could jaywalk, drive in the bike lane, blow a red, or take a rolling stop, or make an illegal right-on-red. If you do not have infrastructure that violently enforces those rules, such as concrete bollards, or make them extremely convenient and desirable for individuals to choose to follow, such as detection loops that turn the light green as soon as it is safe to cross, those rules may as well not exist.

> Would you feel comfortable with an older member of your family taking a walk on a Sunday while trusting e bikers not to bowl them over turning around a corner on the sidewalk, going the opposite way on a one-way street, or running a red light?

If you ask me why I'd feel uncomfortable, it's because of cars, by a long shot, every time. The risk profile in both probability and magnitude is just so much worse with cars. Take space away from cars and give it back to people; it creates tons of additional space for everyone to maneuver, improves visibility, and calms the streets, all of which filters down to preventing accidents that people on bikes and scooters cause as well.

I tend to agree with you about e-bikes. A class 3 can go up to 28 MPH from the manufacturer, and getting them to go faster is an easy modification.

For anyone that isn’t aware, a Sur Ron X is essentially an electric dirt bike that can get up to 50 MPH when modified.

So what? I can go 45 mph on a human powered road bike downhill. 28mph isn't as scary as it seems and you'd be glad you had that speed when you have to inevitably take that ebike into mixed traffic with cars. I believe for motorcycles they say speed is safety for similar reasons, to be able to escape somewhat from dangerous car situations going on all around your spongy soft body.

I enjoy riding e-bikes, for the record. Going fast on an e-bike is like having happiness on tap. I think more people should own them so that we can collectively start to realize a different way of organizing transportation and commute.

Regarding safety, when it is a bike vs a car, I agree that having more speed is better and safer for the cyclist.

But the issue is when we have a bike vs a pedestrian. I've been a pedestrian next to groups of fast moving e-bikes. It can be pretty scary. Some cyclists can feel entitled to riding on the sidewalk, which at high speeds can really injure someone if they were to crash. E-bikes also weigh a lot more than a non-ebike (up to 120lb in some cases) so getting hit at top speed is a bigger deal than a normal bike.

My overall point is that I think cyclists need to start behaving more like vehicles, rather than fast-moving pedestrians. Obviously we need more investment in biking infrastructure for that to happen, but with how fun and useful e-bikes are, I am optimistic that will eventually happen. As e-bikes become more common, I expect this to become a bigger part of the conversation.

It would be easier for cyclists to behave like vehicles if they actually had infrastructure available. No one is going 28mph on a sidewalk by the way. Honestly going much faster than a light jog is sketchy enough with all the utility poles, cracked sidewalks, debris, foliage, even living situations, that one is liable to encounter on the sidewalk, imo.

>My overall point is that I think cyclists need to start behaving more like vehicles, rather than fast-moving pedestrians. Obviously we need more investment in biking infrastructure for that to happen, but with how fun and useful e-bikes are, I am optimistic that will eventually happen. As e-bikes become more common, I expect this to become a bigger part of the conversation.

I agree, but there needs to be enforcement of laws against cyclists and e-bikers. The entitlement of sidewalk riding and red light running, in pedestrian cities that already have bike lanes like NYC, needs to be counterbalanced with fear of consequences.

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