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Comment by JumpCrisscross | Hacker News Reader

> Everyone is better off if we live in a society where you can do well and be rewarded for it, which is what affirmative action supports

Affirmative action is sins of they father by another name. It's judging people, and sending the message that it is okay--even righteous--to judge people not on who they are, but on from whom they are born.

It also creates justified racial animus between ethnic groups anew, and does so in a motivating way: by harming, or even just creating the perception of harming, their children.

> Why would you want to make education more elite?

Because we're defining an elite based on a mangled construction, where the kids of an Angolan dictator are given precedence over those of a refugee in the name of fairness. That's the construct of race. Meanwhile, the descendants of the slave owners get admitted on legacy.

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The fact that you think the source of the racial discrimination is college admissions and not centuries of violence and hatred is sad, but unsurprising.

You are not immune to history, what happened before you were born does matter, and it effects/hurts people all the time. Affirmative Actions is just one way we can try and figure out how to heal that immense damage. It's not the only thing we can do, but it is something, and it can be done in a way that helps everyone.

> the source of the racial discrimination is college admissions and not centuries of violence and hatred is sad

They're both acts of prejudice on the basis of race. There's a view that there is some dimension of racism where racism in "one" direction can be negated by racism in the "other" direction. But this relies on a stable concept of race across time and space, which doesn't exist, because people mix and move and change how they identify.

> what happened before you were born does matter

I wasn't born in America. Neither were my Asian friends. Isn't it convenient that they're asked to bear the burden of America's heritage of slavery?

You're not bearing any burden, as there are a lot of schools who aren't Yale that will accept you. This isn't the case for those who are benefiting from Affirmative Action.

For some, Yale is their only shot, due to the inherently racist nature of American society. Those people should get priority over people for whom this isn't the case.

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the racists in American society that make these programs necessary. If it weren't for the objective fact that many minority groups in the US suffer on nearly every level when compared to others, these programs wouldn't be needed, but they do so they are.

> not bearing any burden, as there are a lot of schools who aren't Yale that will accept you. This isn't the case for those who are benefiting from Affirmative Action.

I went to a state school on a merit scholarship, so I'm pretty far outside direct impact from these decisions.

If someone thinks their only chance of going to college is Yale, they're wrong. Fixing that lack of institutional knowledge makes more sense than twisting the scales to fit a race-based ideology. (To the degree I bear indirect burden, it's in living in a society that seeks to create a racial hierarchy. Also, being young enough that the obviously predictable backlash will be a problem in my lifetime.)

We have a legacy of wrongs against Black Americans. It's on all of us, including those who didn't commit the atrocities but benefit from the system built on them, to address that. Creating racial pools in college admissions is not the way.

> If someone thinks their only chance of going to college is Yale, they're wrong.

They're not wrong, that's literally the lived experience of many, many folks. This is exactly the problem; you're not taking the perspective of people who actually are discriminated against in America.

And I didn't say "of going to college". This isn't just about college, it's about opportunities for a high degree of success in a person's life. Yale doesn't represent "college" it represents "prestigious college that will open doors for the rest of their life".

Some folks get one of those shots. Yale doesn't represent that to you, but it represents that to some folks, and if they're qualified for admittance, it makes perfect sense to prefer them over people who will get other shots at a highly successful life.

> This isn't just about college, it's about opportunities for a high degree of success in a person's life. Yale doesn't represent "college" it represents "prestigious college that will open doors for the rest of their life".

Why is Yale the only shot for the child of a wealthy, well-connected person of one race but not the poor, unconnected child of another?

> makes perfect sense to prefer them over people who will get other shots at a highly successful life

This is the assumption that rightfully grinds people. Why do we assume because someone is Asian they will not face those barriers? And again, how convenient that the actual descendants of slave traders have reserved seats, too, at these prestigious institutions.

Yale is often the only shot at a high level of success for poorer, less educated racial groups. I'm not sure you're understanding me if you believe what I'm saying is designed to support wealthy, well-connected people generally.

And there is no assumption about Asian success, there's cold, hard data about the comparative lack of discrimination in academia and in life outcomes.

But it does sound like you're laser focusing here on Asian kids, and ignoring the many white kids who are also being bumped out of these programs. Odd...

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