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Comment by jrochkind1 | Hacker News Reader

potential terrorists? I mean, who isn't a potential terrorist?!

adds jrochkind1 to watchlist

Probably people people who don't fit a certain profile, in the extreme people like kids, old people, billionaires, most politicians, priests, disabled people. Sure kids could grow to become terrorists but I doubt there are any 2 year olds in those lists. I don't know how many women fit the profile of a terrorist though.

You have far too much faith in organizations

The world will tremble at the sound of our burps and toots.

https://theintercept.com/2016/04/06/class-action-suit-target...

https://famous-trials.com/pattyhearst/2200-fbiposter

I'm not one.

maybe, but you are potentially accusable of being one.

How do you know?

Go through the US border. You'll find out. Even if you are a US citizen. I got thrown on something like this almost a decade ago when I fought alongside the YPG, a US backed Kurdish militia that fought against literal ISIS.

DHS/CBP put me on some fucked up list and now everytime I re-enter the US I get detained, accused of crimes, tossed in holding cell. Last time it was 16 hours and they involuntarily took me to two hospitals, got a warrant to "internally search me" (anally), and drove me 60 miles to two different hospitals against my will while chained and cuffed while being accused of being a smuggler with no basis whatsoever. Later the hospitals sent me the bill, even though I never consented to anything, and there was no true medical reason for being dragged to the hospitals against my will, and despite DHS/CBP lying and saying they would pay for the hospital bills. I also filed complaints with the board for the medical professionals, and of course was told that a nurse can perform a law enforcement "search" without consent even without a warrant (the warrant was actually not served until after I went through the hospitals) and without even a court order or even being arrested (I wasn't arrested).

Yes that's right, the Arizona nursing board says nurses can act as sworn law enforcement and can search you without even a warrant or probable cause and even if you never consent to any medical care or even being touched, and that they can provide medical care against your consent even if it's not an emergency and without a court order or warrant and without you even having been arrested. DHS has taken profit off of this opinion and now uses nurses to search people on their list without having to get their own hands dirty and minimize their own constitutional limitations.

Let me count a few other occasions. Another time I was told I would never be allowed to re-enter the US; yes that as a US citizen I could not enter the United States. On yet another occasion I was told my passport would be cancelled, even though there's no real legal mechanism for them to do that. You can imagine what it's like to smile and nod your head while being told these wild lies by officers who may even be poorly trained enough to believe this themselves. It's always 4+ hours of detainment to cross a border along with intense attempted interrogation by DHS/HSI detectives. Ah yes, I've been fingerprinted and "booked" by DHS as well, on what basis I don't understand, even without being arrested.

I have never been charged of any crimes, I have no criminal record, and in fact the only thing I did "wrong" was help protect people from actual terrorists.

So yeah, if you want to find out. Jus cross the border, turn around and come back. You'll find out quite agressively.

Always be talking to an expensive camera and they will give you royal treatment.

Sadly the border is the one exception where filming/recording an official in execution of their duties is illegal (constitution "doesn't apply" at the border). Same to cell phone operation. There's no way to record it. And I get strip-searched when I cross the border by officers who have found themselves quite desperate to find something, anything, to charge me with.

I would say the banning of recording at the border is something DHS/CBP counts on in order to enable their pattern of abuse. And when they lie in their warrant, it helps them greatly as it's purely your word against theirs.

And doesn't "the border" get defined as something like 100 miles from every "port of entry", which not only includes land borders and the coasts but also internal international airports?

Jesus Christ, I’m so sorry for your experience. I hope this is solved for you in the future.

This story makes my blood boil.

>So yeah, if you want to find out. Jus cross the border, turn around and come back. You'll find out quite agressively.

Were you deployed or did you go there on your own? Joining with a militia and fighting in a war zone full of terrorists is the sort of activity that should trip all the red flags. US-backing doesn't necessarily mean the group is without their own controversies and if you weren't deployed how the hell do they actually know what your goals were while you were there?

I get it, your situation sucks ass and you shouldn't be subject to abuse but you're absolutely not a normal case and 'fighting with a foreign militia' is exactly the sort of activity customs is going to want to know the story behind.

> the sort of activity customs is going to want to know

not customs, border patrol. I mean, I'm sure what he's carrying would be scrutinized, but that's not the source of this list

> not customs, border patrol

Have you ever crossed a US border by land or sea or flown into the US? Customs agents handle ports of entry, border patrol handles the border between ports. Both are under CBP under homeland security but wear different uniforms, different job activities. They mentioned crossings and most citizens not wanting a headache use the legal crossings.

before you get to customs (inside the US) you get your passport stamped (at the border). The person who stamps your passport is not a customs agent.

It all gets blurred if you're a US citizen. We don't get our passports stamped at all. Quite often they aren't even checked on the way out. CBP has combined task of border patrol and customs enforcement. As someone who's interacted with CBP many a time I get the impression the same officer often takes on both tasks.

It's not a normal case but it's on the spectrum. Missing a flight because your on a list is still really annoying and sometimes it can be terrifying.

Should something that "trips the red flags" result in someone being treated that way? I would think at this point the security police would already know the "story behind" it, or if they don't it doesn't seem like more of the same kinds of interrogations are going to help; do you think they learn more of the "story behind" it each time? Or, what do you think the point of that treatment is? Do you think it is making the country safer? (and after all, as a US citizen who has not been charged of any crime, he is eventually let back into the country each time. So... what is the point of this?)

>Should something that "trips the red flags" result in someone being treated that way?

There's a lot to unpack in their post, the situation sucks for them and I'm not defending the treatment they received, I am pointing out that they aren't a normal citizen if they go to high risk areas and fight with foreign militias.

>I would think at this point the security police would already know the "story behind" it

Cross enough times and a citizen with a boring enough life will probably receive some scrutiny over why they cross so much. I dated a foreigner for many years and at some point her country started to get suspicious of me wanting to overstay. The Americans just wanted to know if I was a smuggler moving drugs or cash back, that's it. The country I was going to was not an active warzone, though when I first crossed as I was younger to 'meet friends I met online' this triggered some extra scrutiny.

> Do you think it is making the country safer?

Vetting citizens returning from fighting with foreign combatants probably does fit the exact scenario of making the country safer. There is no way possible for US government to know (nor should they know) what a citizen is doing every second of their life. Having to go through a secondary and receive questioning about what they've been up to in a high-risk area is not unreasonable.

I think you have some reasonable views on this. I hope someday DHS/CBP is taken over by a person such as yourself, because they basically have free reign at the border as a "constitution free zone" and most citizens who never travel don't care to petition their representatives to make any changes.

If you have some time I encourage you to read the experience of Ms. Cervantes, a woman "legally" finger raped by border patrol / physicians.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985...

If all they did was "try to find out" and then letting me go when they are either satisfied or I stop talking and they have no probable cause a crime has occurred, I would have never made this post.

It's clear to me these lists are as much about extra-judicial punishment as "finding out." I do not think a place exists in our society for these lists that impose against the freedom of citizens to travel without some sort of due process to petition a court for removal and/or some way to "drop off" the list after X years of living as a free peaceful citizen in harmony with others. Law enforcement officers should be tasked with enforcing the law, not with harassing people about things that are non-criminal, like fighting against ISIS (believe it or not there is no law that prevents you from fighting in a foreign militia, and in fact I do not believe any American has ever been charged for fighting with YPG.)

Having been fighting at a war zone on a voluntary basis with no official role is exactly the sort of thing they should be asking questions about, but these forced anal cavity searches are essentially rape and used as torture device which is despicable.

The problem is even if you aren't one and even if you are not the one targeted by DHS/FBI, you could still be caught in it if someone with a similar name was caught up on it (like "Judy Smith", an alias used by an actual US domestic terrorist, which significantly inconvenienced a lot of Judy Smiths).

I mean, sure programs like TSA TRIP exists to mitigate this, but in practice no-one outside of TSA readily honors or knows them (and certainly not Equifax, which considering credit scores are widely utilized, would definitely impact their day-to-day life).

There's also the fact you can end up on a DHS list and there seems no real way to get off of it, even after being interrogated by HSI / DHS on many occasions and them seemingly being satisfied you are indeed not a terrorist. See my post below for more on how I know this.

Maybe not today, but maybe tomorrow!

Have you ever worn a beard, or a hoodie?

That classification is rather arbitrary and not yours to make.

That's kinda the whole problem with it

And it's kinda nonsense, isn't the point of the nutty airport security to catch people in a terrorizing act?

That is of course until the laws change and what you formally considered a fundamental right becomes an act of terrorism.

If you piss off a border guard or they don't like the cut of your jib they could put you on the watch list.

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