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Comment by wccrawford | Hacker News Reader

I've been learning Japanese for a couple decades now, and I've never heard a cafe called a "kissa". Always "kissaten". It feels like the author just make up their own slang for another language, and that doesn't feel good at all.

In addition, they wrote a book about visiting a bunch of cafes, and then they're going to leave that book in random other cafes that didn't get put into the book? I can't imagine I'd be very happy about that as a cafe owner. Especially since the book was written by a foreigner (gaijin), and the Japanese still aren't very cool with foreigners, in general. "No gaijin allowed" is still a fairly common sign for some businesses, as I understand it. It seems rather tone deaf.

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If you click in the book, it's right in its description:

  Kissa by Kissa is a book about walking 1,000+km of the countryside of Japan along the ancient Nakasendō highway, the culture of toast (toast!), and mid-twentieth century Japanese cafés called kissaten.

And per my experience and what I've been told from locals, the "No gaijin allowed" is only common if you're visiting certain industries (sex work, striptease, and the like...), maybe yakuza owned underground-ish dicey bars, and areas near American military bases were soldiers have been known to cause problems.

When Japanese don't want to deal with foreigners, maybe because racist reasons, or just because they don't feel like explaining the rules or etiquette of a place to an outsider, they will just tell you the place is closed (even when busy), forbidden, busy (even when empty), or some other nonsense excuse.

Kissa is a common short form, particularly for themed cafes: jazz kissa, manga kissa, maid kissa, etc.

In general, nearly any common long word in Japan gets truncated down to three morae. Kissaten -> kissa, McDonalds -> Makudonarudo -> makudo, Brad Pitt -> Buraddo Pitto -> burapii, etc.

> McDonalds -> Makudonarudo -> makudo

Fun fact, makudo (マクド) is how they call it in kansai (osaka, etc). makku (マック) is how they call it in kanto (tokyo, etc).

Oh, I was going to correct him. Never heard it called anything other than makku.

But yeah, Kanto ;)

I didn’t know what kansai/kanto were, so here’s an article I liked explaining one view of the differences: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/kansai-vs-kanto/

I currently live in Japan and I have never come across a jazz kissa, though Jazz outlets do exist in some multicultural/expat areas they aim themselves for foreign clientele. Also kissa is a rarely used term in my opinion with other slang being preferred outside 漫画喫茶。

I think jazz cafes and jazz bars are a common thing in parts of Japan, although they’re dying out. I’d say they’re decidedly western thematically, but aimed at a domestic clientele.

I believe Haruki Murakami ran a jazz bar before becoming established as a writer.

> "No gaijin allowed" is still a fairly common sign for some businesses, as I understand it.

I've lived in Japan for two years, been back several times since, and traveled extensively within the country -- and I've never seen any such sign, nor asked to leave any business because I was a foreigner.

I've been here seven years. Can't say I've seen it either. The server industry has been nothing but hospitable.

They're less and less common but they very much still exist, especially small bars. I haven't encountered any outside of Tokyo though.

I didn’t see a sign at the time, but I’ve been asked to leave after the server confirmed we couldn’t read Japanese. Honestly didn’t think much of it, just assumed it was because the menu was only in Japanese.

People say kissa all the time in Japanese. Source: I live in Japan and speak Japanese with Japanese people.

I also live in Japan but I wouldn't use the term "kissa" outside MangaKissa or a traditional coffee shop (and who goes to a traditional coffee shop on a normal occasion?)?

> who goes to a traditional coffee shop on a normal occasion

There’s like 3 on the way to the station, presumably some people go there on the regular.

If you live in an area populated by older people then yes.

I’m gonna agree with everyone else. I’ve lived in Japan for years and never seen a sign like that.

Probably because Google says “喫茶” translates to “coffee shop”?

> "No gaijin allowed" is still a fairly common sign for some businesses, as I understand it.

Really? In what language? I’ve never seen such a thing, but I don’t get out much.

There are certainly places that don’t want to cater to foreigners, with reasons ranging from can’t provide proper service in other languages to, I assume, virulent racism. But all they have to do is not accommodate any foreign language, and they won’t get any foreigner business.

Publicly stating it on a sign like that seems pretty unexpected.

I went to Japan a few years ago and also encountered some shops which had signs that said "no foreigners allowed". It was somewhere in Kyoto if I'm remembering correctly.

Nobody bothered me or was disrespectful at any point in my trip.

Edit: it was in small back alley shops which had long lines of various restaurants. You had to really poke around to end up in those hidden spots.

I saw it a couple of times in the mid 2000s; once in front of a strip joint and once in, slightly bizarrely, an Internet cafe, pointed out by the owner who then asked us to leave. I’ve never seen once since though.

> I can't imagine I'd be very happy about that as a cafe owner

I kinda imagine most owners will find the book, learn it’s about kissaten, think that’s vaguely amusing, and then wonder mostly about how they’re going to return it to the crazy gaijin that left it behind.

Consider reading up on the author. He's been living in Japan for large parts of his life.

I just checked with my (Japanese) wife, and she agrees that “kissa” on its own isn’t really used. I hear “junkissa” though (純喫茶) … old-style cafes.

I don’t think calling the book “kissa” is a bad idea in any way, though. One thing I’ve learned about Japanese is that it’s under constant change (more so than English) and it’s easy to imagine “kissa” becoming more common over time.

https://jisho.org/search/%E5%96%AB%E8%8C%B6 ?

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