Wait, When Did Everyone Start Using Apple Pay? | Hacker News Reader

Wait, When Did Everyone Start Using Apple Pay?

wsj.com

The number of merchants and stores that take it have steadily grown in my area for the last few years, and it helps that they did not constantly change the branding/app like their competitors[0].

0: https://www.androidheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/...

The Google Wallet fiasco was such an own goal that the top leadership of Google should have resigned.

Apple pay works just about everywhere[1] in the UK. For example, just a week ago I went on a vacation within the uk which started in a major city (Glasgow) and then proceeded out around some small towns in Scotland[2]. I used Apple pay for literally everything. I never touched physical cash[3] and although I had my credit cards with me, I didn't need to use them a single time.

[1] Weirdly toll booths on motorways in the UK accept contactless but not Apple pay for some reason

[2] Which is awesome - really recommend Scotland as a holiday destination btw

[3] I actually haven't used physical cash in the UK at all for at least 3 years now

I have seen homeless people with their own card readers in London (plus many people playing music in tube stations with their own card readers) - otherwise it's hard to find somebody with actual cash any more

I like the convenience of using Apple Pay at the store and not bringing my physical credit card.

But there is one problem: If I use Apple Pay, now Apple and my credit card company both have a digital record of where I spend money. If I use my physical credit card, only my credit card company has that record.

So it does mean a 100% increase in the number of digital records about your spending.

(Cash is ideal but too inconvenient)

With Apple Pay the store does not se your card number and can't store it/steal it. For me this is a big bonus.

It would be a 50% increase, the store has a digital copy too.

I actually like Apple Pay for the extra security it provides. At least in the US, there’s non-negligible chance that your card can be skimmed (happened to me before). Using Apple Pay feels much more secure, though come to think of it, I don’t have a real proof that it is.

Just had a card "skimmed" and it just happened the day after a food place refused to take ApplePay because it was "down". At this point I would love to have burner cards for dealing with problems like this.

They have these burner cards that come in various denominations, they're basically like gift cards that you can use at any shop. The actual card is quite flimsy but the whole system is pretty well designed. In fact there are probably several dispensers within walking distance of your home if you live in any city. You just use your regular bank card and choose the "Withdraw cash" option.

The NFC payment protocol is inherently more secure as it transmits not your card number but a one-time payment code.

Removing magnetic stripe and printed number should be enough for security for now. I thought physical Apple Card don't support magnetic stripe from its design, but it seems still have, interesting.

I actually wish my primary debit card was on the Apple Pay network. I have a credit card that works and I absolutely love paying that way, like, it amuses me every single time.

But, alas, I only got the credit card to inflate my credit score so I don’t get full entertainment value out of Apple Pay as I hardly ever use it. It is the biggest scam ever, I give them money and they charge me obscene amounts of interest to spend my own money all so I can prove I’m not a credit risk to other companies (which, honestly, I’m very much a credit risk which is how I managed to live over 50 years on this planet without ever having a credit card).

> It is the biggest scam ever, I give them money and they charge me obscene amounts of interest to spend my own money

Are you not paying off your card every month?

I spent about $3,000/month on my credit card and pay $0 for the privilege. In fact, I earn money from it because my credit card company gives me 1-3% back depending on what I'm buying.

If they're charging you "obscene amounts", then you're either living beyond your means or have a really shitty credit card provider. Any decent provider gives a 30 day grace period on purchases before they start accruing interest, so if you're paying off the card every month (Really, I pay mine off twice a month each time I get my paycheck), you'll pay zero interest.

Well, don't forget the 2.5 - 3 percent that the merchant has to pay to the MC/Visa network. That's how they get to build the tall buildings. (Higher for people using "award" cards that abuse the rest of us via higher prices.)

But otherwise, you're correct. Pay it off. I note that the Apple credit card has features that help you pressure yourself to do so. Good on Apple.

Tell me, which debit card in your wallet is not also Visa/Mastercard?

My discover card gets a lot of usage, especially when they have PayPal or digital wallets as a quarterly category.

yeah but where i live they cannot have different prices for credit card vs other forms of payment so they just include those in the product price..

some places if you ask they will give you a discount if you pay with money\debit but that is not always the case..

so for the places were i will pay the same amount either on money\debit or credit i might as well pay with credit and get cashback...

Apparently they want to see you hold a balance, but not too much, to get in the good graces of the credit agencies.

And my issue with them is more philosophical than practical, I have to play their silly games to get a VA loan, which I believe I’ve fully earned, but nobody said I have to like it.

> Apparently they want to see you hold a balance, but not too much, to get in the good graces of the credit agencies.

Needing to carry a balance to improve your credit score is a myth.

Besides, your credit card balance is sent to the credit reporting agencies only once per month. If you're using your card for all your purchases, then unless the balance is sent on the day you paid off your card, a balance will be reported, so even if the above is not a myth, you're still fine.

> And my issue with them is more philosophical than practical, I have to play their silly games to get a VA loan, which I believe I’ve fully earned, but nobody said I have to like it.

For a VA loan, yeah, I agree. Theoretically, you've earned the right to a loan because of military service.

Other than that, though, I fully support the credit reporting/scoring system as-is. Banks need a way to know if they can trust you to make payments on a loan. Without it, banks would need to charge everyone much higher interest rates because there would be even more fraudsters taking out loans they have no intention on repaying.

The only place Apple Pay doesn't work for me is Ralphs (It's California's brand name for Kroger). All the machines say "No Apple Pay". I know they can afford new machines. I know they can replace them in a day if they wanted. They just choose to add more friction to make shopping there just a little bit worse.

I think Fred Meyer (one of the Kroger brands in Washington) has the same lack of Apple Pay. They do have their own branded payment app, which you can tie to any payment methods, but Apple/Google payment systems aren't an option.

Must be a corporate decision then - maybe they're trying to promote "Kroger Pay" which I can't imagine has much adoption (https://www.kroger.com/f/kroger-mobile-pay-faqs)

Walmart is just as bad... and their branded payment app is less intuitive than Kroger Pay.

From what I can find around the web, it seems like Apple Pay has a 0.15% card issuer fee per transaction (not billed to end retailer). I could see Walmart and Visa/Mastercard's agreement for per-transaction fees being so low that fee would be prohibitive. But definitely not Kroger who wouldn't be considered a budget grocery store by anybody.

https://archive.ph/qorM6

When the first bank in my country started supporting Apple Pay I opened an account with them, just to be able to use Apple Pay.

Hassle-free paying is a big deal. I always have my phone (or nowadays, watch) at the ready, but not my wallet.

> I always have my phone (or nowadays, watch) at the ready, but not my wallet.

This is strange to me. Why would you not have your wallet?

Any time I leave my house, I have my wallet. I see it as being even more essential than my phone.

I can answer this for my use case. I often go for a run and leave my wallet/phone at home. I’ll play music off my watch to keep things light and minimal.

Sometimes I might take a break for a coffee with friends, and I have used this numerous times to checkout since my watch is on me rather than paying them back.

I’m also looking forward to losing the keys soon with NFC locks. I hate needing to carry around a bunch of accessories.

It may be more essential - especially given the need to have your drivers’ license with you in states that don’t yet support digital id’s) however you can go a whole day without touching your wallet. Your phone will probably see your eyes within minutes of getting in your car if you are as maps-addicted as many are.

I mean moving more things into a secured device means - they can steal your phone without taking your money or accessing your sensitive information / creds.

Another UK resident here.

I don’t take my wallet out of the house most days. It’s there for if I think I might run out of phone battery and need to be able to pay for something urgently, or be somewhere that only takes cash, but that’s been maybe three times in the last couple of years.

Do you have a driver's license or other ID you need to carry with you?

No, driver's license doesn't need to be carried around in the UK. If the police want to see it, you can bring it to them later.

Other IDs - nothing is required to be carried around in the UK, but lots of offices have a pass card, which allows you to get in and out through barriers, take some buses for free, etc. I have one that lives in my laptop bag.

In America, the law states that you are not required to provide ID to police unless you are suspected of a crime or it's a traffic stop.

But that's just what the law states, and cops don't care about that. They'll harass you until you lash out in frustration so that they have an excuse to beat the shit out of you and throw you in a cell.

So yeah, theoretically, I don't need to carry my ID if I'm just walking to the store, but I kind of do anyways in case I run into a cop with a bad attitude.

I don’t drive and live in the city. I walk everywhere and have a smart lock - I don’t carry wallet or keys some days. Why would I need a wallet?

Yeah, that was the case in the past..

But now all my debit and credit cards are in my phone and watch.. my driver license and ids are in my phone..

Everything that i would need my wallet for is now also in my phone and some in my watch.. so why carry both? might as well leave the wallet home, one less thing to carry and risk loosing..

The main reason I still have my wallet is for my driver's license/ID, and the (unfortunately) too many places that require an actual card or cash for payment, like my physical therapy provider.

Besides, I'm not sure that if I had my driver's license on my phone I'd like to hand it over to a police officer anyway.

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