Comment by IceMetalPunk | Hacker News Reader

Comment by IceMetalPunk | Hacker News Reader

I applied for my first career job (read: first job that wasn't "you don't get a living wage" retail, and which actually used my degree) 4 years ago. It's the job I'm currently still at. When I applied, it was for an entry level position at $35k. After the interview, I was offered a senior position instead for double that salary. Apparently, my current salary after 4 years of $81k is still on the low end for a senior app dev; go figure.

So on the one hand, expecting a six-figure job out of the gate is ridiculously naive.

On the other hand, over the past few months, I've gotten more and more tired of the very idea of money. Everything from "do you deserve to enjoy yourself?" down to "do you even deserve to live?" (and everything in between) is decided by how much money other people are willing to give you, meaning employers have a massive, slavery-like chokehold on employees. Meanwhile, most people don't even understand what fiat money is, but they're greedy about wanting it because under a certain amount, you suffer and die. Literally. Which only happens... because other people are greedy about money, too, for the same reasons. It's a vicious cycle. (BTW, the answer to "what is fiat money?" is "anything that represents a promise to complete a trade". That's all, it's just promises, but we treat it like it's a deity that we must worship lest it send its wrath upon us and kill us.)

Anyway, rant over for now.

I agree. I am in an entry level position right now and not making much, but I am hoping to push past that before long and make more. However, parent, teachers, relatives, everyone all said the same thing. "go to college, you you will make lots of money!" Turns out, that was a gross oversimplification and a CS degree doesn't automatically make money. You have to have a mix of experience and solid projects under your belt, and if you don't have those then you will suffer a lower paycheck for it.

Personally, I am tired of the rhetoric that "kids are too entitled! They expect MONEY when they graduate?" when that is exactly what everyone tells you practically from birth. If I have kids, I am going to try and make sure that going to college is an educated decision, and not some place they feel they absolutely need to go.

I think college/uni should be about personal growth and education first, career opportunities second. Can it help you get a job? Great. But that shouldn't be why you do it; you should do it because you want to learn about the world.

That said, since university is privatized, it's expensive, which sucks for society. So it's definitely going to be a consideration of whether it's affordable to learn or not.

In a way I can agree with that, but we need to change the narrative. Instead of telling kids to go to college to get a job, we would need to change it to "go to college to learn interesting things." When we tell kids that, that's the expectation they will end up having when they go.

The demand for college also has to go way down to make it more affordable, save for maybe an act on the government's part. Learning for learnings sake is great, but not $50k great.

> In a way I can agree with that, but we need to change the narrative. Instead of telling kids to go to college to get a job, we would need to change it to "go to college to learn interesting things." When we tell kids that, that's the expectation they will end up having when they go.

100%

> The demand for college also has to go way down to make it more affordable, save for maybe an act on the government's part. Learning for learnings sake is great, but not $50k great.

An act on the government's part, or less predatory institutions. Maybe both. But it's absolutely needed. Reducing demand for education because of finances is terrible.

I say decrease demand, because people are going to college for the wrong reason. People have been told that they cannot get a good job without a college education, and that is simply not true. Because everyone thinks thy need one in order to live comfortably, tons of people who otherwise would not think of going, or even want to go, end up going. This ends up raising the price, because universities know they can get away with it. If people were going strictly to learn, I would agree.

At this point though, I think the only thing that is going to fix this situation is the government setting limits on tuition. Future generations are going to have it worse than even we have it unless something drastic changes the market.

In an ideal society, the number of people who want to learn as much as possible about the world would equal the number of people in the population :D

There definitely needs to be some sort of government-imposed improvement on the cost of higher education. In many European countries, university is free; if only we in the US could do something like that. However, I'm pessimistic about that ever being possible, because 'Murricans hate the idea of paying for anyone else in any way, even if it's only like $12/month from them for everyone in the country to get an education. (BTW, that figure comes from my recent calculations during conversations with folks about the recent student loan forgiveness announcement.)

Basically, an educated society is better for everyone, but people in the US are generally selfish and childish enough to get actively angry if they're asked to help other people be more educated... or to help other people for any reason. It's like most Americans, or at least the most vocal, live in a society but think they are isolated from the world on a self-sustaining desert island or something.

I know this is beside the point, but I'd shop around a bit if I were you. It sounds like you're still very underpaid

So I've heard. But I don't really care. I'm single. My current salary is enough to pay my mortgage, all my bills, all my student loans, my food bill, etc. and still have enough to not only save, but donate. I give a minimum of $1,200 to St. Jude's every year, plus assorted charities and even random Twitch streamers who make music if I like what they do and they seem like decent people. In other words, despite everyone saying "you should try to get more money!", I'm currently making enough that I'm literally giving large amounts of it away to people who need it more than me.

TL;DR: I don't care about making "as much money as possible". I only care about making enough money to survive comfortably and help others when I can, which I'm already doing. In fact, I'm currently working towards switching careers, and in the process I'm more than willing to take a pay cut if the new job is more fulfilling; I can afford to.

I'd never fault someone for being content, and if there's a specific tradeoff you're making for that paycut, then more power to you

But otherwise- there's a difference between "trying to make as much money as possible" and "keeping a casual eye out to see if you could be making more money doing roughly the same thing you're already doing". Imagine if you could give twice as much to St. Jude's, or pay off your student loans completely, or both. There's a huge gap between being greedy and letting money rule your life, vs not giving it the slightest attention. It's worth putting in the baseline effort, especially if you're not having to sacrifice any of your other life priorities in the process.

Oh, sure. But that's the big caveat, isn't it? "If you're not having to sacrifice any of your other life priorities in the process." If attempting to go for the bigger paycheck leads to unemployment, then I won't be able to survive myself, let alone help others. Everything is a risk-reward analysis, but such an analysis requires an understanding of how likely each outcome is. If chasing the dollars is more likely to lead me to fewer opportunities, then it's not worth doing.

There should be no risk, though. Don't quit your job, just look around while you're still employed. Put in your notice if/when you accept another offer

The risk I'm concerned about isn't that my current employer will fire me. It's that if I switch to another job, I might not last long at the new employer.

That said, I'm doing the job switch thing anyway; not to get more money, but because I've grown to hate my career and am hoping to switch into a more creatively fulfilling one. If I can find such a job with a larger paycheck, of course I'll take it; but I'm also willing to take such a job with a pay cut if that's what's available to me in the new industry.

Fair enough, best of luck

Thanks! Good luck to you, too, in whatever endeavors are on your plate these days.

Well put.

It also makes zero fiscal sense to lose an experienced, onboarded and productive employee due to tiny/non-existent raises, to then have to spend more money finding, interviewing, hiring, onboarding, and pay the new person more- but companies seem hell-bent on perpetuating that cycle as well.

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