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Comment by sorenjan | Hacker News Reader

This situation is infuriating to me as a Swede. We use basically no natural gas or oil for heating or power production, and right now we're exporting 3.8 GW to other countries, showing that we have a power surplus equaling several nuclear reactors. A few days ago I heard that we where the largest power exporter in Europe.

Even so, our power prices are through the roof because the price is set by the high export prices. We're paying approximately 5X-10X what we're used to because of the extremely poor energy policies in other countries. Nevermind being dependent on Russia, which has been a terror state killing politicians and journalists for decades, they should have invested heavily in energy efficiency and switching from fossil fuels years ago. Now we're paying the price for their idiocy.

Not that our government is perfect either, they've given large US companies like Microsoft and Amazon tax cuts on power to get them to build datacenters.

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My colleague joked today that this is the third time Germany ruins Europe...

To be fair to Germany, only there can one import Russian gas at scale, take out all the genocide and terrorism using very precise custom designed filters and export it back to Poland or Ukraine as freedom gas.

Germany did end up getting a rather bad rap though, which is why I think Russia decided to help out by cutting gas deliveries.

The fair thing would be for Swedes to pay pre-export prices.

Yes, especially because we already have four different price zones. Power is still relatively cheap in northern Sweden and out of control in the southern part. The reason for the zones are said to be because of limited transfer capability from the big hydro power plants from north to south, adding a fifth zone for export would seem to be the reasonable solution.

I think long term it already is fair: the extra profits should end up in Sweden economy, and citizens should come out wealthier as a whole.

You think it's fair that elders are forced to sell their houses, because they cannot afford to pay for basic utility? [0]

[0] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/han-flyttar-fr...

And that it's fair that businesses have to shut down? [1][2][3]

[1] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/helsingborg/klippans-bruk-...

[2] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/pizzan-kostar-300-kronor-...

[3] https://www.smp.se/lessebo/lessebo-paper-stoppar-produktione...

This is just the beginning by the way and 4 out of 5 jobs are created by small-medium businesses in Sweden. [4]

https://www.di.se/pressreleaser/2022/06/10/foretagarforbunde...

Socialism is nice until you run out of other peoples money.

I am in the US and bought my current house from an older couple who could not keep up with the costs of having it, utilities definitely being a part of it. I do not know Swedish, but Google translate calls the house in the story you linked "a villa", which sounds to me like a rather upscale place. Make what you want out of it. As far as I can see this particular situation has nothing to do with socialism.

The link numbered 2 starts with this in Google translate: "Already in February, the Granholm couple from Öland noticed that electricity prices were skyrocketing. Even though they were only open for a few days that month, they received an electricity bill of SEK 30,000." What kind of successful pizza business is open only for a few days a month? Doesn't this make you suspicious about electricity being the biggest cause of the closure, and not just the final kick to the already dying business?

It has everything to do with socialism, because the state is the main beneficiary when electricity is tripple taxed (Taxed on buy, sale (double) and transport) and are making billions while people are becoming homeless (requiring welfare to survive). If you also remove businesses that drive tax to pay for welfare, who's then going to pay for everything?

They where open during times when electricity cost was at the lowest and yes, of course such hours would never work, it just drives in the point even more, restaurants are unsustainable at high energy costs. Keep in mind that low-pay jobs are non-existent in Sweden due to high lowest-salary regulations, a huge difference from US.

Perhaps it would soften the blow if one doesn’t think of the present problems as paying for the idiocy of others, but rather as helping fellow Europeans through a potentially long, cold winter. Or helping Ukraine fight for democracy, for freedom, for Europe.

I don’t think that in the EU we’ve fully exhausted the benefits of virtue and moral grandstanding, it’s too early to give up or be upset. And Sweden always had a claim at being a moral super-power.

Helping others solve their own problems doesn't keep your home warm, or food affordable. This isn't about helping Ukraine, it's about dealing with the aftermath of closing nuclear power, building not one but two natural gas pipelines to Russia, not prioritizing energy efficiency like insulation and heat pumps, and so on. Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis.

Edit: I forgot an important point. I don't have anything against exporting power to our neighbors. My issue is that we have to pay the expensive power prices set by the expensive export. Our power hasn't suddenly become 5X-10X more expensive to produce, if we could keep our usual price and sell the surplus to other countries at the prices they want to pay I wouldn't mind it.

Also remember Germany (or better, the CDU) blocked nato membership of Ukraine.

Thanks again Angie!

> Even before Putin went full crazy climate change was supposed to be a serious crisis

This.

I am guilty too. I know there really isn't much I can do to "help" except to accelerate my home energy efficiency plans, which will free up some small amount of gas for export this winter.

But why do I need to accelerate my plans? I made them last year. Why did it take an invasion halfway around the world to get me moving?

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