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Comment by Cupertino95014 | Hacker News Reader

No one goes to a physical bank anymore, right?

Wrong. If you happen to get to a branch at 8:55 am to use the ATM (assuming they open at 9:00), you'll see a line of people waiting to get in. Are they all just old people who don't know any better? A quick inspection will show that they're not.

One reason I've gone to one was to get a bunch of $100 bills to pay for my puppy at a breeder. For some reason, breeders tend to insist on cash. I suppose there are less legal reasons to want $100's, but I wouldn't know about those :)

Continuing with "choice of denomination": if you operated a retail business, or you were having a garage sale and you wanted a whole lot of variously sized bills to make change, you might go to the bank.

Turning in coins? Lots of stores have coin machines, but they take a commission out if you want cash and not store credit.

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Perfectly valid arguments for installing a modern, 4-cassete Diebold atm with a cash recycler and, optionally, a coin hopper. Such a device costs about $40K and is much cheaper to operate than a branch.

Branches exist because all other channels suck. Why would you go stand in a queue if you could request $100 banknotes from an ATM? Who would need to discuss mortgage in person if there was a sane, simple, transparent web page for it? Who would need to go to a branch to complain and get a problem resolved if they could do so from their phone?

Every visit to a branch is a negative KPI in modern banks in modern countries since early 00'es.

> Who would need to go to a branch to complain and get a problem resolved if they could do so from their phone?

Sometimes the problem happens at the level of phone and it is much easier to have it sorted in person instead of being stuck on helpline. I had some issues with my local bank's app and they knew what to do at the branch.

If not using the app and physically going somewhere is easier than using the app then the app clearly has some room for improvement.

In this case, the problem was with installation of the app itself - once sorted, it worked well.

I consider me needing to go into a physical branch if I want to transfer tens of thousands or more a feature, not an issue.

May be an indication that web and mobile channels of your bank are not very good. You perceive it is safer (or easier) to go to a branch and get a funds transfer performed by a random semi-literate clerk, than using an app.

Banking apps are often confusing, dumb (can't predict/detect/anticipate) and struggle to authenticate a user securely, have low transaction limits, so clients resort to going into a branch, getting authenticated via a piece of colourful plastic by a random clerk and requiring a manual labor to perform pretty simple operations such as funds transfer.

Well, now that you mentioned the subject, I think my bank has the only sane multi-factor authentication implementation I have seen on the wild. Including all the usual giant informatics specialized multinationals. And they have been doing it since something around 2005.

The threat surface of a physical office is just absurdly smaller than an internet service. And the recovery options completely outmatch anything virtual.

What bank do you use? I use capital one and have had good experiences so far

Banco do Brasil.

I'm not from the US.

Obviously the people who run banks don't see it your way. You notice that in those TV commercials about "banking reimagined" the guy is still standing in a building of some sort.

Who run banks in the US maybe. The rest of the world has largely moved on.

When I used Wells Fargo, they wanted me to go into the bank building to get quarters for laundry so they could run that fake account opening scam on me. Similarly when I tried depositing coins; they had a teller hand count them to take longer so the manager could try and sell me things.

I think this might support the article's point.

Another reason I suspect is that it's a lot easier to prove identity in-person.

Bank suspects you of fraud? Forgot your password and don't know how to reset it? Need to do or confirm a large transaction? Any half-decent banking app will require a lot of verification, because who knows if it's you or some hacker in a foreign country.

But if you show up to your bank's physical location and your face matches your ID, they'll let you do much more much easier. It's a lot harder for a fraudster to reasonably disguise as you or create a fake ID with your information, especially if they're from a foreign country and don't have a US passport.

Maybe not everywhere, but I can at least confirm with my local bank. Occasionally I get locked out of my account and I find they're smart and don't encode any information (Account ID, username, etc.) in any of the emails they've sent to me, so that in case someone steals my email they can't get access to my account. I also know it's harder to do large online transactions, like transfer money between bank accounts. But if I go to the physical branch, I can reset my password, deposit or withdraw cash, etc. and they are very kind and don't ask for much info.

Banks are also recording your interaction on camera and doing plenty with that data to verify your identity and in cases of fraud, prosecute the imposter. Look for the cameras behind the tellers some time.

There is also plenty you can do at a bank you either can't do on the phone (say, get a cashier's account), more likely to succeed that automatic (open a credit card with less than stellar credit), or is more complex than a robot or human following a script can follow.

I've had to go to a branch for two reasons and only two reasons in the last decade:

(1) To buy a house in cash, I need "proof of funds" so the seller of the house I'm making an offer on can be assured I can follow through with that offer. The "proof of funds" every realtor has told me to get is a letter from a bank branch, on bank letterhead, showing my current balance at that bank. Not just a printed out online statement.

(2) A big nasty red banner appeared on my online banking telling me that I needed to complete a "KYC Refresh" or my account might be closed! And that I had to do it in person, so call and make an appointment. Apparently it had been so long since I'd been in a branch or used my debit card, that they wanted to verify my identity and business registration in person. Unfortunately, this happened in 2020 when we had no idea how COVID spread nor any N95 masks to wear, so it was either risk my health or risk my business bank accounts. I went in.

That's strange. It's been a while so my memory may be faulty, but I don't recall having to go into a physical branch to do the proof of funds.

The one I know of that has to be done in person was a “medallion” thingy - basically the branch put their millions on the line to confirm I was who is said I was to Vanguard.

That's a medallion signature guarantee; it's like a notary public but done by a banker. You also have to get them for things like IRA transfers.

It doesn't actually have to be your own bank or anything; I've gotten one from a Chase branch because I had one of their credit cards. All that matters is it comes from a banker.

And my local bank couldn't actually do a medallion thing locally (no special signature person any longer)--and their central location couldn't either for some reason in spite of being verified locally. Ended up going to a not super-convenient brokerage office and the whole thing took 5 minutes.

Heh the one I got was at Chase for the same reason. My actual banks had no offices in the same timezone, let alone state.

Notarization, medallion stamps, safe deposit boxen, reliably getting larger amounts of cash in larger denominations, and getting cashier's checks promptly. I'm not saying these things make the bank money, but they're definitely reasons I maintain an account at a local brick and mortar bank. Also the old manager loved to drop into shop talk, like say about the economics of truck rolls to reload ATMs, which was fantastic. Alas, she retired and the new one seems to be a bog standard robot.

Last time I was there, there was an older woman next to me asking about a CD coming due. The teller was giving her a list of pathetic rates, and a slightly less bad special term of like 0.2%, while online rates are somewhere 2-3%. It was cringeworthy to listen to, but people that don't know any better are unfortunately their best customers.

Are breeders illegal around cupertino? I thought everyone was adopting rescue dogs and putting breeders out of business, adopt don't shop and all.

i know LOTS of pet families and the impression is based on them...but a few do have breeder bred dogs.

They're not illegal anywhere, AFAIK, and you can just go to a dog park, see all the pedigreed dogs, and talk to the owners to know that breeders are doing just fine.

There might be licensing rules, and a lot of the owners you'll talk to got their dogs from somewhere in the sticks, maybe for that reason.

Your username creeped me out because it’s my city and zip, haha. Had to do a double take

If you look on any of the pet websites for breeders, I don't know how many you find actually IN Cupertino. Mine was in Valley Springs (look it up).

Yeah not very many. We’re looking at getting either a Samoyed or a Bernese Mountain Dog, and finding good breeders is hard.

I love the gigantic dogs. Mine is "only" 85 pounds.

You probably know this, but there are "breed clubs" for most breeds.

Breeders are more prevalent than ever. Since Craigslist tightened the rules they're just harder to see.

There’s nothing wrong with “healthy” and responsible breeding; adopting is important for sure, but show dogs are still a thing, as are purebred dogs for first time dog owners, or those who are dedicated to a particular breed. It’s important to find a reputable breeder, though, rather than a puppy mill.

isn't genetic diversity a problem?

There are strategies for this: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/health-and-dog-care/health/...

In Vietnam, the largest bill is 500,000 dong or about $22 usd. It is always entertaining to be in a bank there when someone is buying a house. I've seen whole tables and suitcases filled with stacks of cash and multiple people with counting machines trying to make sense of it all.

Everyone uses US$ for large transactions, or they did when I was last there. Contacts specify payment on in dollars too.

It is illegal to use USD for transactions in VN.

https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2015-11-03/vie...

http://www.apac-legal.com/c/the-use-of-foreign-currencies-in...

That said, it is Vietnam, so it does happen anyway... like at the gold dealers...

https://vietnamnet.vn/en/despite-a-ban-us-dollar-transaction...

Some contracts (especially foreigner housing rental and things like buying motorbikes) specify payment in USD but accept payment in VND, so that they can nail you on the conversion rate.

Side note, the link in your bio goes to some chinese spam site...

Modern US $100 notes have more anti-counterfeiting features than the other ones.

Wanting cash can be to lower costs and risks and admin headaches, especially if it's just a small side business. Cash can also be for tax avoidance.

Annoys me to no end that in the USA we can't get money in denominations of $1,000, $10,000, or $100,000 as one could in the 1930s. Sure, it's to stop drug dealers. I'm not a fucking drug dealer.

What possible practical use would those bills have?

Even $100,000 in 100 dollar bills doesn't take up that much space.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-27735dcda82818fef15d7...

He wants to shift more costs onto the rest of society

Uh how?

I like cash.

Sounds easy to lose compared to the same amount in $100s.

I assume you stay safe and transact only in 1s?

People wanting a "global currency" -- you can stand down. We already have one. It's the US $100 bill [1].

[1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/files/coin_109...

I like to have a few $100s for traveling internationally--although in general it's hard to predict if they'll be accepted in the US. At some point, the US got incredibly conservative about changing currency denominations. It's also been my experience that the average bank branch doesn't keep a bunch of hundreds laying around--though I imagine a downtown branch is probably better.

You just reminded me that I was in London, I think, and for some reason I was really glad I had an emergency $100 in my wallet. Debit card didn't work, or something. It's been a while now.

> the average bank branch doesn't keep a bunch of hundreds laying around

Is that what you've found? I think asking for 10 or 20 would usually work. If you wanted $200,000 worth, you might get asked a few questions :)

$20s are OK. That's the usual thing that ATMs spit out. But I've had various problems over the years where I've wanted a few hundred dollars because of some issue. I have more card redundancy these days--because you have to given anti-fraud systems. In the past I've have carried traveler's checks but that doesn't really make sense any longer. I do like having a good $500 of cash with me for foreign travel and probably more for more remote locations. $100 bills aren't essential but a few can be useful as an emergency reserve.

One of the credit unions I use has predominately cashless branches. They've got ATMs, but the people can't do any work with cash. Kind of ugh, but they were open during 2020 when I needed a cashier's check, so there you go. I've only asked for a large number of bills twice, I had to do a currency order to get 100x $2s, but for 100x $5s, a non-cashless credit union near by had that in the vault, no advance notice required.

> One of the credit unions I use has predominately cashless branches.

That sounds a lot like Boeing Employees Credit Union and is one of the dozen or so reasons I can't understand why they are so popular around where I live.

I use Seattle Credit Union (formerly Seattle Metropolitan) and not only do they handle cash in branches, they were open the whole pandemic though some branches needed an appointment to make sure someone would be there.

It just amazes me that a credit union can get so popular while effectively outsourcing (for example, when someone like you would go to "a non-cashless credit union") a basic function of banking. I know of a couple of credit unions in the Puget Sound region who have dropped out of the co-op credit union network in response to BECU only doing shared member activities via their ATM. BECU's customers would turn around and come to those other credit unions, increasing their load.

Yeah, BECU. I mostly use StarOne, formerly Lockheed Martin Credit Union, but they're in the Bay Area and now I live in Kitsap. BECU seems well liked, and seemed to be more open than the other credit unions over here.

>I like to have a few $100s for traveling internationally--although in general it's hard to predict if they'll be accepted in the US.

22 years ago upon coming to US with in particular several thousands in cash of new smelling $100s i was trying to pay $2 bus fare by pulling one of those fresh $100s from a small stack and trying to give it to the bus driver - the bus driver was actively refusing it - "no change", etc. - and i was perplexed to say the least and thought that the driver uses the "no change" excuse for some unclear to me reason "I don't understand, I mean this is US, the dollars are used here not something else, this is a good genuine bill, fresh from the bank, look it has sequential numbers with the others in the stack, how is it "no change" when even back in Russia i usually had no issues with change even from a $100 bill" :)

Huh, I recently read a comic with almost exactly this scenario. It took place in Britain, though.

Actually in Europe back then i didn't have such issues, though that may be because i visited places frequented by tourists including Russians (and in 1990s in Russia dollar was de-facto currency for almost everything other than the grocery store)

Though even there I remember another interface mismatch situation - a group of Russians in our hotel wanted to rent some very expensive car, and the rent agency required a credit card where is the guys naturally had no cards, only cash in the amount almost sufficient to buy the car :)

In general through the 1990s the behavior of the post-USSR people, Russians in particular, coming to civilized West out of the woodwork of the post-Iron-Curtain chaos was in many situations comic-worthy.

A lot of city buses won't give change period. It doesn't have much to do with it being a $100 bill other than that making it an especially terrible deal for you.

22 years later, even a lot of places that do give change won't accept a >$20 bill in the US.

Anecdotally, in Poland it seems that branches really are for "old people". There is an entire generation which will want to do most things with a human in a branch. Then there is a generation that psychologically needs a branch nearby just to feel better (secure), and there is a subsequent generation which simply doesn't care about branches at all.

On a practical level, once you open an account, you typically never visit a branch again, unless for a really major paper event (like signing a mortgage). There is simply no point.

The ATM I use lets you set the mix of denominations it returns. Which is good since it recently started giving out all $100s by default.

Many ATMs in Canada now allow you to choose which notes you'd like for cash withdrawals. Anything from $100s to $5s are available, including specific quantities of each

um, breeders are morally questionable... https://www.google.com/search?q=dog+breeders+bad

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