Dogs poop in alignment with Earth’s magnetic field, study finds (2014) | Hacker News Reader

Dogs poop in alignment with Earth’s magnetic field, study finds (2014)

pbs.org

I don't know about magnetic alignment, but as a dog owner, there is clearly _some_ kind of search algorithm running in that little brain. My dog will weave a path all over the yard before finding an ideal spot.

My dog poops as though he requires 5 legs, an extra one to hold a gun at all angles to make sure nobody attacks him while he does his business.

Concur, my dogs stance always struck me as a "I'm vulnerable as h*ck while doing my biz".

That's why your dog watches you while pooping. They're vulnerable, you're able-bodied and will spot danger first, so they take danger cues off you.

My pup won’t poop in the yard at all (and gratefully has an aversion to poop generally). So we walk for poop business, and she often needs to get a running start. Often also this running begins downhill, and then up, rounding the edges of whatever prospective poop designation until finding just the right spot. And then she does a cartoon-style “wind up” where her legs are running but her body remains stationary. It’s all very adorable except when the terrain is slick or when she decides the right spot is down a very steep side hill.

If you read the paper [1] I wouldn't say the data is convincing. The author's openly admit to changing the methodology of the data analysis (p-hacking) after the data collection.

There are issues with data collection. Some data collectors measured to the nearest 5 degrees and some to the nearest 10 degrees.

There are issues with statistics. Rao's circular uniformity test values are presented without any commentary or analysis of there significance.

The rate of change of magnetic declination is presented as a percentage whereas it is actually in minutes of arc per minute (of time) which would have SI units of s^-1.

It is still unclear how rate of change of magnetic declination relates to how a dog chooses to orient itself. I suspect it has something to do with a correlation between rate of change of magnetic declination and time of day. But why time of day is correlated with orientation seems to be an unknown. Maybe walks at a particular time of day or position of the sun.

The authors dismiss the position of the sun as being an influencing factor but present very little data to support this conclusion.

[1] https://frontiersinzoology.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.11...

Mine seems to be trying to get a lock on at least three satellites before finding the ideal spot.

Lol. So true ...

Ever since I became aware of this study I was on the lookout for this with my dog. There was no expressed clear preference of NS and an avoidance of EW. On leash / off leash doesn't matter.

Obviously I didn't do this methodically so I could be mistaken. However, without any replication and the note about potential p-hacking of another commentor, I'm going with BS for now.

Good on you for validating the study!

FWIW, the study says they only do it when the magnetic field is calm, which was only 20% of the time (it says).

Ah. That could also be it as I obviously didn't control for that and missed that critical piece. So maybe this study is legit after all. Hard to say.

Perhaps there was some selective pressure, where the owners, who could accurately use this new form of poovayance, had a higher chance of survival, especially in northern climates where it can be more difficult to find North. These owners went on to survive, along with their gifted dogs. Maybe your dog is of southern descent.

Or, perhaps an insightful breeder realized that their dog was throwing directional lots [1], after looking for their bag of bone lots that had be eaten in secret, and capitalized on it.

Or..yeah maybe it's DS. :)

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy

Who’s to say that our classification of “dog” lines up with whatever this effect lines up with biologically.

I mean the variation alone in size and shape is pretty broad within the category of “dog”. Is it unreasonable to think that other properties like poop alignment don’t also vary across breeds?

3 years ago, 160 comments.

Not particularly strong science.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22276468

(2014)

Also ignoble price winner of 2014

https://improbable.com/ig/winners/?amp=1#ig2014

I would like to highlight the Competing Interests claim of the article: "The authors declare that they have no competing interests." This is for sure a particularly necessary condition for issuing such high quality research on such delicate topic. It moves me to next level as a dog owner: I'll pet my dogs only when oriented E-W in order to avoid 'accidents' - I've already realigned properly my furniture around in the house.

I would note that, as per my last experience with a litter, I realize now that this is result of the forced education from the dam with an (still) unknown evolutionary purpose. Reluctant E-W-oriented puppies would turn in rounds hoping their mother/dam is not watching when selecting the wrong orientation. But each non-N-S-oriented poop position would get punished immediately with a bite. Most dogs remain with sequelaes in adult life, searching in rounds for the spot for minutes, repressing their inner E-W poop identity. I note that we used the dam to teach my young sons geography. Yes, still room to investigate this vein...

I'm glad that my country and all world can benefit from such research done abroad.

I hope no animal/human gets hurt by above inspiration moment at end of my hard work day. I apologize proactively closing my computer. My two dogs wait for me looking in a particular direction...

This might warrant a (2014) tag in the title.

You figure dog poop science has advanced that much, eh?

Haha. Perfect

It would be interesting to understand if non-domesticated animals do this as well and if this holds up on different continents or environments?

As a dog owner I wonder if some of this is because of wind direction. Having a fence I observe our dog not following the north/south facing orientation.

I think there is some evidence they do. I remember reading about this: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0803650105

We demonstrate by means of simple, noninvasive methods (analysis of satellite images, field observations, and measuring “deer beds” in snow) that domestic cattle (n = 8,510 in 308 pastures) across the globe, and grazing and resting red and roe deer (n = 2,974 at 241 localities), align their body axes in roughly a north–south direction. Direct observations of roe deer revealed that animals orient their heads northward when grazing or resting. Amazingly, this ubiquitous phenomenon does not seem to have been noticed by herdsmen, ranchers, or hunters. Because wind and light conditions could be excluded as a common denominator determining the body axis orientation, magnetic alignment is the most parsimonious explanation. To test the hypothesis that cattle orient their body axes along the field lines of the Earth's magnetic field, we analyzed the body orientation of cattle from localities with high magnetic declination. Here, magnetic north was a better predictor than geographic north. This study reveals the magnetic alignment in large mammals based on statistically sufficient sample sizes. Our findings open horizons for the study of magnetoreception in general and are of potential significance for applied ethology (husbandry, animal welfare). They challenge neuroscientists and biophysics to explain the proximate mechanisms.

I am guessing this research could end up getting nominated for an Ig Nobel prize [1]

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel_Prize

It already won, in 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners...

I was very confused until I saw the Ig

Everyone take your dogs for a walk that crosses paths with an MRI machine.

I would expect a very pronounced poo-ing behavior if magnetic fields had anything to do with it.

My dog seems much more responsive to wind/ambient conditions, noise, and visibility.

I would just like my dog to align with gravity when pooping. Come on dog, that's going roll right back into your feet..

Could it be that they orient themselves to the sun? And the magnetic alignement is just coincidental?

They could check it out at night?

Or maybe in artificial magnetic field?

I'll check it out with a compass next time my dog takes a dump in the forest!

Why would the magnetic alignment be coincidental rather than fundamental?

Magnets aren't the only things that run north-south

I think the point is it’s no coincidence that the planet’s magnetic field is aligned with its axis of rotation and the plane of the solar system.

But that’s missing the point of its parent comment, which is conjecturing about the dog’s immediate sensory input, not root causes.

My thoughts exactly. I mean.... I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to actually be magnetic fields, but at this juncture that seems speculative at best.

"Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'." https://xkcd.com/552/

Correlation does not imply causation is a cliche. Why do people constantly repeat this quotation without the obvious extension?

What is causation and how is it established? Seems pretty obvious, yet for some reason most people never ask this question or are even aware about how to establish it. They just say correlation doesn't equal causation and are suddenly psychologically frozen. Their biases prevent them from taking the obvious step forward.

The experiment to establish causation is simple. Tape a magnet to your dogs head, observe if there are any differences in pooping behavior.

I thought about the sun as well. Animals are at their most vulnerable when pooping and want to be able to spot anything coming at them. If you're pointed east or west you have a stronger chance of having the sun directly in your face. Your peripheral vision could be knocked out.

Hahaha.. in Yorkshire (UK) we don't often get sun, so when our terrier aligns himself North>South to take a dump I'm sure he's using the Earth's magnetic field. Not only that, he always does it in 2 stages, so I'm guessing "part 2" will be more accurately aligned.

My German Shepard shits in whatever direction another dog is facing in the yard...

My toilet faces NORTH and I am much more comfortable pooping there than in the other bathroom where the toilet faces EAST.

Coincidence?

The wifi is also stronger in my bathroom, so... there is that as well.

I don’t have a reference, but I believe I read an article explaining that this theory was based on selective data and that in fact dogs have no direction preference.

The comments here are in line with what I vaguely remembered:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22276468

This is prime material for the "HN or satire?" game currently also listed on HN...

(2014)

also this is junk science

Maybe, but it's fun, no?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com